Virginia Tech Shooting: I’ve Already Seen Enough
April 18th, 2007I thought that I should designate a single post to all of the Virginia Tech related analysis, to parse out some of the key signals from the noise. Within 30 minutes of actually sitting down to read about the incident, I had already seen enough.
At first, I was looking for—and found—indications of trauma induced mind control.
According to ABC News:
Lucinda Roy, a co-director of the creative writing program at Virginia Tech, taught Cho in a poetry class in fall of 2005 and later worked with him one-on-one after she became concerned about his behavior and themes in his writings.
Roy spoke outside her home Tuesday afternoon, saying that there was nothing explicit in Cho’s writings, but that threats were there under the surface.
Roy told ABC News that Cho seemed “extraordinarily lonely–the loneliest person I have ever met in my life.” She said he wore sunglasses indoors, with a cap pulled low over his eyes. He whispered, took 20 seconds to answer questions, and took cellphone pictures of her in class. Roy said she was concerned for her safety when she met with him.
She said she notified authorities about Cho, but said she was told that there would be too many legal hurdles to intervene. She said she asked him to go to counseling, but he never did.
One play attributed to him, called “Richard McBeef,” describes a 13-year-old boy who accuses his stepfather of pedophilia, and ends with the boy’s death.
In another, called “Mr. Brownstone,” three high-school students face an abusive teacher.
“I wanna kill him,” says one character.
“I wanna watch him bleed like the way he made us kids bleed,” says another.
The two plays were posted on AOL after a staffer named Ian MacFarlane, a December 2006 graduate of Virginia Tech, brought them to his editors’ attention.
MacFarlane said he was in a class with Cho in which students were required to post their plays online for peer review and comment.
In a different ABC News article, Brad Garrett, a former FBI agent / ABC News consultant, provided some interesting commentary:
The date of the first gun purchase will likely serve as the time of “some triggering mechanism that was very important” to Cho said Garrett, an expert on profiling murderers.
That made me want to read through the first ABC News article again, and I noticed something that I had skipped the first time.
Let’s look at Sun-Kyung, Cho’s sister:
Cho’s parents live in a townhouse development in Centreville, a suburb of Washington. They own a dry-cleaning shop nearby.
His older sister, Sun-Kyung, graduated from Princeton University in 2004. A source, who asked to be identified as a senior Administration official, said she works for McNeil Technologies, a firm contracted by the State Department to manage reconstruction efforts in Iraq.
Woh. Ok. Stop right there.
What does McNeil Technologies do?
Oh, the usual black bag intelligence agency cut out kind of stuff… Actually, there’s more here than you can shake a stick at.
The McNeil Technologies Services page lists the following categories: Language Services, Information Management Services, Program Support Services, Security Services, Intelligence Services.
I clicked on Intelligence Services first.
Intelligence Services -> Overview
McNeil”s Intelligence and Language Center (ILC) provides unmatched expertise in the areas of Intelligence and Language Services. The combination of Intelligence and Language guarantees our clients mission success.
Our services and capabilities include:
* Intelligence Architecture Operations in support of the US Army Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC).
* Open Source Intelligence (OSINT) which supports the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) and other government agencies, and
* HUMINT (Human Intel) operations in support of DIA, or with federal counter Intel outsourcing effort. Our
* Linguist operations, with linguists deployed in various theaters of operations,
* Translation operations which include document and website translation,
* Testing, Training and Research of language and cultural awareness.
Under Intelligence Services -> Key Solutions, we see:
HUMINT Operations:
Classified CONUS and OCONUS support by seasoned Intel professionals.
That means support for intelligence operations inside and outside of the continental United States.
Then we have:
Security Services -> Overview
The Security Center at McNeil Technologies is a dynamic and growing Center providing full spectrum security services.
* It is one of only three competitively-selected providers, and the only Washington-based provider of airport passenger/baggage screening services under Transportation Security Administration’s Screener Partnership Program. McNeil provides service at Greater Rochester International Airport.
* Physical Security which includes Access control, escorts, and Guard services, Electronic systems monitoring, as well as classified mailroom and package inspection.
* Personnel and Logistics Support is provided by MILPO operations
* Program Security consists of arms control and nonproliferation support, treaty vulnerability assessments, and support of Balanced Survivability Assessments
* McNeil Security Inc. – For more information about the McNeil Security subsidiary go to the website at www.mcneilsecurity.com.
Cui bono? Who benefits? At some point in the future, would a company that provides physical security for large organizations benefit from what just happened at Virginia Tech? It’s obviously just a coincidence that the sister of the shooter works for a large provider of these services. Right? A company with more publicly stated connections to U.S. Intelligence than you can shake a stick at… A company that is providing ongoing support to current U.S. Intelligence operations…
Feel free to keep clicking around on that site, if you dare. Intelligence operations. Physical security operations at airports and top secret government facilities. Government document declassification. Handling of information related to weapons of mass destruction… It goes on and on.
I’m not trying to sell you a set of steak knives: But wait, there’s more.
Who/what owns McNeil Technologies?
According to the McNeil Technologies About page:
In July 2004 Veritas Capital acquired McNeil Technologies and its subsidiaries.
Veritas Capital is a private equity investment firm headquartered in New York. Founded in 1992, Veritas’ primary objective is to partner with experienced and entrepreneurial management teams to develop leading companies in their respective markets. As a long-term investor in the defense, aerospace, and government services sectors, Veritas has established a Defense & Aerospace Advisory Council consisting primarily of former high-ranking government and military officials. The Council provides Veritas with insight into industry trends from both a business and policy perspective. Veritas’ principals bring over six decades of collective investing experience through a variety of economic conditions.
With over a $ 1 billion in investments, Veritas is able to offer unprecedented resources to its portfolio companies to help them satisfy their clients’ requirements.
Moving on to Veritas Capital, again, take your pick of what to look at there, but with two board members being associated with the Council on Foreign Relations…
Like I said, I’ve already seen enough.
UPDATE 1: 4/19/07: Is the South Korean Film Oldboy Somehow Related?
I know I said that I’ve already seen enough, but it’s actually difficult to keep up with the rest of the news without bumping into this story.
The New York Times posted a brief story about how Cho appears to be imitating a scene from Oldboy, a 2003 South Korean film. I gathered the appropriate images from Cho’s “multi media manifesto” and Oldboy.
Cho and Oldboy?
If you don’t know what Oldboy is about, you might think pfft!, so what, two Korean dudes with hammers, God damned conspiracy theorists… I’ve never heard of the film before today. What’s it about? See for yourself. The parts about forced drugging, psychological torture and split personalities caught my attention. But to the growing number of people who insist that this has nothing to do with mind control (really! you conspiracy theorist whackos should just get a life!), this is just another coincidence. * yawn * Of course, your results may vary.
UPDATE 2: 4/20/07: Comment Moderation
This post is attracting the WRONG kind of traffic, and lots of it. The troll population has literally exploded.
So, some rules about comments:
1) Make sure your comment is on topic. For this post, it would help if you’ve read at least some of the literature on U.S. Government mind control programs.
2) If you have a personal issue with me or Cryptogon, comments on posts aren’t the place for that. Feel free to send me an email if you want. I may or may not respond. (Why not start your own I-Hate-Cryptogon blog, with round the clock coverage of why you hate Cryptogon? That may be a more productive use of your time.)
3) Be polite to other users.
4) Read rule #1 again.
UPDATE 3: 4/23/07: Cho Attended Same High School as Another “Lone Nut” Shooter
And the shootings occurred within one year of each other.
To quote the story, “It’s just a horrible coincidence… It’s hard to believe.”
But is it really that hard to believe?
Is it?
In general, when lies are told to Americans, everyone knows that there’s no point is telling small lies. Tell them whoppers. Tell them nonsense that wouldn’t even fly in a nut house full of raving lunatics. The more absurd the lies, the more Americans have to believe in multiple, ridiculous ‘coincidences’, the more readily they will internalize the programming. For people who managed to believe the Mohammad Atta magic passport story, and so many other absurdities, this will just be another walk in the park.
Via: Chicago Tribune:
Fairfax County, Va., police investigators said today that Virginia Tech gunman Cho Seung-Hui was a 2003 graduate of the same high school attended by an 18-year-old who went on a shooting rampage last year at a Virginia police station, killing two officers.
Michael Kennedy, armed with an AK-47, fired more than 70 rounds in the parking lot of the Sully District police station on May 8, killing Det. Vicky Armel and Master Police Officer Michael Garbarino. Kennedy was shot to death by police.
Cho and Kennedy lived in Centreville and graduated from Westfield High School, said Officer Courtney Thibault of the Fairfax County Police Department. She said Cho graduated four years ahead of Kennedy.
Once Cho’s identify was released by police in Blacksburg, Va., home of Virginia Tech, Thibault said Fairfax County police launched an investigation to determine if there was any connection between the two shooters. She said they found nothing tying the two young men together.
“It’s just a horrible coincidence,” she said. “It’s hard to believe.”
UPDATE 4: 4/27/07: System Planning Corporation Involved with Investigation
System Planning Corporation is such a profoundly spooky outfit that it creeps me out just thinking about it. But I’m sure that it’s just another coincidence that one of DARPA’s largest contractors—a private company involved with some of the U.S. Government’s blackest projects—is involved with the investigation into the Virginia Tech shooting.
Via: Washington Post:
An Arlington County consulting firm that evaluated the emergency response to the 1999 Columbine High School shootings and other public safety crises has been hired by state officials to assist the panel that will investigate the Virginia Tech massacre.
TriData Corp. will provide staff and research support to the eight-member panel named last week by Gov. Timothy M. Kaine (D). Kaine, in Northern Virginia yesterday for a community meeting with the South Korean ambassador, met privately with Philip S. Schaenman, TriData’s president. Schaenman said the contract terms are being worked out.
A division of defense contractor System Planning Corp., TriData is best known for studying fire safety issues. But it also conducted a study for the Federal Emergency Management Agency on police and emergency medical response to the shootings at Columbine, in which two students killed 15, including themselves, at the Colorado school. The report pointed out problems with communications and management of the disaster scene.
The firm was retained by Virginia officials to review the chaotic response to a false positive anthrax test at the Pentagon’s remote mail facility and a similar alarm at Defense Department sites in Fairfax County in March 2005.
Again the firm concluded that poor communication and unclear chains of command hampered coordination between federal officials and local jurisdictions. Schaenman told a congressional committee that the response was “the homeland security version of the fog of war.”
More: Cho Seung-hui and the Not So Secret School
Ok, so what are you implying? From your other post, 1 of 2 people get cash from uncle sam. So the probability in this case was someone the shooter knew was sucking the gov’t teet.
You seem to be implying this might be a gov’t op. That had occurred to me. Gonzales’ feet about to be stuck in the fire, kucinich beating the impeachment drum, housing meltdown, increased casualties in iraq since this past winter. The sheep need to be distracted?
or is it just a huge coincidence that the shooter happened to lose his shit when and where he did? In our lovely world of ‘merica, i’m surprised people don’t lose their shit more often.
ah, come on!!!!! he was mentally ill. the school was warned. they did nothing. funeral homes are making money. the end.
As a firearms instructor I tell you it sounds fishy. Most people (unless heavily trained and highly skilled) suck with handguns. For example: Recent LA police shooting: 112 rounds fired from close range, nicked the suspect (who was NOT shooting back) once.
So you’re telling me this college kid, a troubled loner, fatally shoots 32 people with a 9mm Glock 19 and a .22 caliber Walther? Was he a professionally trained assassin?
You don’t learn how to shoot from playing X-Box. Something doesn’t add up.
This kid has clearly been molested, reading his writings. Not only that it looks to be violent, he’s been really abused. And with his sister’s connections, it recalled the Franklin Cover-up
Even the way he stopped seem suspect. With ammo left and potential victims aplenty, he suddenly and surprisingly took himself out (all accordingly to the UK’s Daily Mail yesterday).
Excellent research by the way, Kevin.
Funny that you mention the Franklin Cover-up…I thought the same when I saw the play he allegedly wrote. Trauma-induced mind control is nearly a definite, given all of the descriptions of Cho’s calm, complacent, disassociative manner during the shootings. Interesting information about his sister, as well. FVK makes a point I’ve been wondering about all along: where the hell did this kid learn how to shoot like that with handguns? There is really something about mid-April, though, that’s for sure. The weirdness of all of this is compounded by the fact that a Colorado judge recently ordered the Columbine files to be sealed for 20 years. Needless to say, it’s doubtful that we’ll ever know the full story in either the Columbine OR Va Tech incidents. There is a lot more than meets the eye here…
I’m interested in who this gun fan “Karl D. Thornhill” is (student at Radford University) and, besides his link to the first victim (Emily Jane Hilscher), his link to the Corporati. What is also interesting is how Cho appeared to possibly have been there solely to assassinate her… the RA was collateral. So he stopped shooting for almost 2 hours and then goes on a rampage? Circuits overloaded is my guess… op gone awry. I bet Cho was supposed to self-terminate after the first killing. I’m betting someone is nervous and is likely to make mistakes or miss evidence.
And what about that odd Secret Service shooting yesterday? News reports make it sound like a “Barney Fife” incident… was it related to that package scare at the White House? Odd that the timing is so soon after the VT shooting.
I agree with FVK. I also thought it damn fishy that this kid was such a good shot. Using approximate numbers, he killed 30 and he winged 10-15, so at worst he killed 2 out of 3 that he shot. That seems like a pretty damn good kill rate for an amateur. Hell, I suspect it is a pretty good kill rate for a pro also.
I’ve been watching the news conferences from the beginning, and it looks and smells fishy, as though the school Prez and his chief sad-sack hog were trying to hide something. I can’t figure out what, but I have never seen folk so evassive. Also, has their been any release of the names of the dead from an official source yet? I find that real suspect also. I don’t mean what the AP has pieced together, but a release from either the hospital, or the state hogs.
This case will no doubt fall into the memory hole, and be forgotten with everyone looking sad. But I think something very wierd went down at VT.
Shot himself in the back of the head, I read
Thank You FVK!!! I’ve been going nuts about this for the past two days. I’m not a profesional shooter, but I shoot handguns a little bit (couple hundred rounds a year). I can’t imagine how many rounds that would take. Fishy is right.
My first thought was AR15, but when they said pistols. I started thinking about shot placement and efficiency. At best it’s a freakishly effective shooter.
Please take a closer look at 37 people killed in
Tasmania, Australia by a professional marksman with semi auto rifle. All firearms specialists say that he was among 1% of top world marksman to kill that many peolple with head and neck shots from the HIP. Of course the event was blamed on some weird ex hippie loner who happened to own semi auto rifle. All professional detective work has indicated that only Israeli marksman were using the same kind of rifles and bullets. Enough said. If you do not believe please read about it on http://www.reclaimaustralia.net
I fully agree with FVK. I was in the army at 18 and have been a prosecutor and into self defense etc. all my life. No amateur pulls off what this guy did – – he was a professionally trained assassin somewhere . . . unless you fire an automatic hand gun often at the target range and are very familiar with firing it the tendency is for a jam to happen when multiple rounds are shot by an amateur (check it out for yourself – – one of the reason revolvers are generally better for self defense for people who do not go to the range on a regular basis with their firearm is they will get at least those rounds off without a jam while an automatic will often jam after the second round when it has not been broken in by firing many rounds etc). This whole thing timing wise etc. is very, very suspicious – – we are being controlled by a small group of psychopaths at the top, The Order etc. and we know that the “intelligence” agencies, following the Nazis with MKULTRA, have been working on this type of manchurian candidate programming for years. The fact that the school was “warned” etc. is a great cover . . . Truly a great tragedy for these families as with the poor families being murdered in Iraq and across the world by conspiring psychopaths . . .
Exactly. Proficient target shooting comes only from regular practice, as with every other “sport”, speaking from some paid experience.
And I’ll second the “excellent research” for the fine background on sis and her employ.
I knew it was to good of news, at too good of a time; a perfect distraction for the US government. But i´m a bit confused as to what to take from this. Was he a troubled kid, knowing to much (from family ties) driven to the act? Or was this a government operation, in order to change the news headlines for the better?? Not to sure what to take of this.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3048108&page=2
Some news accounts have suggested that Cho had a history of antidepressant use, but senior federal officials tell ABC News that they can find no record of such medication in the government’s files. This does not completely rule out prescription drug use, including samples from a physician, drugs obtained through illegal Internet sources, or a gap in the federal database, but the sources say theirs is a reasonably complete search.
Did his parents come from a military/intelligence background?
I just love it how these folks manage to get killed before anyone can get any information. I just can’t swallow the whole lone gunman thing again. Not with SWAT cops crawling all over the place for three days before the incident. Don’t forget that we are now in the AIPAC Rosen and Wiessman trials in addition to Roves newly emerging connections to the AGs firings along with Gonzales, Iraq and Cheney’s latest implosions. I remembered watching Moore’s Bowling for Columbine and feeling revulsion for Charleton Heston and his gun stance. Now I feel revulsion for Moore (and his film mentor Mr. Ellis, you know the Bush cousin). I have come to believe that we are being had. I can’t imagine how the whole planet isn’t paranoid when you start looking at the connections between these tragedy’s and how deeply they intersect the interests of the global elites.
You can play six degrees of separation a lot of different ways. I doubt your analysis but appreciate the effort that went into it. What’s sad is that given what else has been going on with this admin, nothing surprises me anymore.
Enjoy.
Wow, what a compendium! I go to this site first to get the real news. The samples from the killer’s writings make me smile: right out of the dialog of virtually any action movie out today. This indicated that something was wrong with the guy? Maybe we’d better lock Quentin Tarantino up immediately! I agree with the gun instructor. The only way even an experienced pistol shooter could have dropped that many people would have been at point blank range with people just standing there like sheep. Did the guy just go up and down the rows in the classroom while the people waited for permission to run? Wasn’t there at least one macho guy around to grab the guy from behind? Having said all this, the chances for a snap case to be related to an employee of a sinister government contractor is good in this day and age, especially in Virginia where half the people work for the U. S. government, and half the government is involved in sinister empire-building meglomania, and a healthy percentage of the population of former miners, factory workers, small farmers, and oppressed minorities lives in quiet desperation, churning out a constant supply of snap cases. McNeil Technologies didn’t have to set anything up; all it had to do was wait.
False flag distraction event- no question. Only question is, what are they tryin to bury?
I betcha the corpgov sponsored legislation is already written and ready to sign… just checked- yep sure enough, lots’o bills waiting in the wings..
Why did he have the word “Ismaels Axe” scrawled on his arm (Islamic Battle cRY)
How did he manage to fedex his unibobmber manifestO/wackjob scrapbook off to NBC in between first two murders and subsequent rampage?
What video games did he like to play?
Joe Sixpack, are you poking fun at us? I checked out that link of yours and..well. Yikes.
Very interesting…..would be cool to get this to Rosie,I bet she’d also find it interesting,and could blab it out to a much bigger audience than I could.
Gr8 stuff…thanxx
Ok, here’s my real question. Was this a “Terrorist Attack”?
Whether he was some kind of sick kid or government agent, does this count? How much ideology has to be behind an event to push it from randomn violence to terrorism?
not ready to come to any conclusions, but its quite politically convenient and the accuracy seems quite improbable.
also, you guys see the video yet? does it mean anything to any of you? (besides making his delusional state very clear)
also, I saw on msnbc that he played counterstrike a lot…. HEY! I play counterstrike a lot. Watch out for me, i guess.
FVK & tito2, you’re saying my ~100,000 rounds/year with a desert eagle in counterstrike doesnt make me a good shot in real life?!?!?!?!… damn, i thought i was training for battle
Cell phone footage where you can hear the shots.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f59_1176748483
Here’s what I didn’t like when I first heard about this: Students witnessing their peers being shot, then hearing long pauses, then the sounds of reloading. Meanwhile, doing nothing.
Where were their balls? When the guy’s reloading, take him out at the knees, or wherever. I would have done it. Then again, I’m 37 and have instincts that I suspect kids today do not have.
:: shrug ::
Anyone else see the rumors about VT engineering professors involved in 911 truth investigations? Links at my blog.
Bikerangie, I wondered the exact same thing! My guess is he used the Glock 9mm for the main carnage, and the .22 LR as a back up to fend anyone off while he was re-loading the Glock–and he evidently had several pre-loaded spare magazines he was lugging with him in that vest…so you’re talking only seconds to reload, and if he has himself covered with the .22 LR while he’s doing that…still, though deadly, I’d rather face down a loaded .22 LR pistol than a loaded Glock 9mm. He also wasted a lot of ammo blasting away at a door that students had barred, almost robotically–terminator style.
I can’t believe they’d sit and let him fully reload an EMPTY magazine. Even done quickly that takes awhile…I dunno, do they make “speedloaders” for Glocks? My CZ has one, but I’ve never fiddled with it.
In any case I think FVK hit it right on, and I’m glad to hear an expert weigh in on this, as I’m a rank amateur shooter, and I also know exactly what you mean about jamming semiautos that haven’t been broken in, because that’s happened to me at the range! Something doesn’t smell right–and what’s with the filed off serial numbers?
This has PSY-OP written all over it, to me.
Conspiracy theorists here don’t convince me that this was anything more than a disaffected kid and a multiple systemic failure — 1) of a collegiate / university system to act in loco parentis; 2) that meant that significant data of the murderer’s behavior was not aggregated and disseminated so that it a) prevented Cho’s purchase of guns; b) collected and systematically documented and aggregated the evidence of his aberrant behavior so that it could be used by university staff, mental health professionals and law enforcement personnel to protech others.
The engine behind this tragedy here is not some bizarre conspiracy, but the erroneous assumption that children aged 18 and in college should be treated as adults. This continues not to be true, and should not be allowed. Age 21 or 25 should be the new majority. And threatening or bizarre behavior — to self or others — should be enough to get someone sent home, permanently.
One wonders where are the parents in this? What a tragedy, but still, where were they and are they? Their son’s stalking episodes and stint in a mental hospital were signs. How were they dealt with?
This is not a conspiracy. It is the outcome of untreated mental illness. We need to consider how to governmentally and societally reconfigure personal liberties (thanks, ACLU) to allow for societal concerns of safety and the common good to be addressed. The pendulum has swung too far in favor of personal liberty. Society needs boundaries and rules to survive. Ask any big city dweller about the deinstitutionalization of the insane. We who live in big cities impose limits on our own liberty to avoid possible altercations with the insane who live on our streets. We know who they are, we know where they live, we know how to avoid them — we hope — because our governments and our police are powerless to protect us from them, until they actually hurt us, just like Cho.
Hera, you may find this site more suitable for your intellect.
http://www.foxnews.com/
wow, some hours gone and discussion exploded :).
I am still wondering a little bit as to the first news I heard on CNN on this incident. It was said that a man had been arrested after the shooting in building 1. Then some more people were killed and everyone was confused if this is a second person or still the same one or what. This story was dropped at some point in time and substituted with the crime scene at building 1 having been secured. Havent heard any statement of the obviously false arrestment since then.
I still somewhat refuse to buy this as some false flag ops, but I am wondering: who would announce news that someone had been captured in what appeared to be already a serious crimescene with two people dead, if such an arresting never happened? The only explanation is that he might have been expected to be arrested and just wasnt. And somehow the information flow might not have been too good on that. Jumping in partly with d here I guess …
The story reeks. We need to question what the authorities and media are cramming down throats. They create the problems. They create the solutions. They create the box in which you are expected to find the solutions.
http://cutkomp.blogspot.com/2007/04/we-need-to-question-authorities-about.html
Hera, don’t waste you’re time. I’m reading this for entertainment, but these people are nuts.
Look, I don’t understand how he killed so many people either… But give me a break.
I suspect these people haven’t really followed all the developments. Conspiracy theorists (especially the ones commenting here) stick to their conspiracy sites, and it’s known that they’ll see conspiracy theories in anything and are more likely to believe any conspiracy theory they’re told about.
They probably didn’t watch his high school classmates talk about how he was exactly the way his college classmates describe him. They probably don’t know that he was recommended for hospitalization because he was a threat to himself and others a year and a half ago, and someone screwed up and didn’t make it mandatory. The cops have been called and talked to him over his stalking. One professor stationed security to watch him because he made her so nervous. etc. etc. etc.
Let me guess Alex Jonesians, this was all as the programming was being done. At night he climbed to the roof of his dorm and the black helicopters picked him up and took him to Gitmo to train him and program him.
Or wait, maybe his sister tipped off the Illuminati about the type of kid he was, so they had the perfect person they’d been looking for.
Or maybe his parents conceived him for this, and it’s all been in the works for decades.
NO WAIT WAIT WAIT!!! I bet he’s a distant cousin of President Bush!!!
In fact, I’m going to make that claim. Didn’t you guys hear about that trip Bush made decades ago to Korea? Yeah, I always heard he impregnated a woman there. Fast forward, it’s this kid’s grandmother! At least as much as Ben Chertoff is Michael Chertoff’s cousin.
You douche bags.
Hera,
How did you decide it was not a conspiracy so quickly?
Well, this is what happens when the U.S. Government says it’s illegal to physically discipline your kids. You can’t even say it or else your kids call the cops on you. Well dear U.S. lawmaker let’s rethink about “who” invented those laws, investigate their background and motive for suggesting those laws. I don’t mean to be right but if I knew that my parents will “BEAT” the hell out of me for doing such stupidity, I would would just chew my tongue, end of story. Like my grand pa used to say “beat those kids or they beat you and the world when they become older”
V
Kevin I think you ought to put a click thru on Cryptogon for the highest quality cod liver oil you can find. Would probably do us all some good, too late for that Cho guy though…
Criminals do not obey laws. Laws do not prevent crime by criminals. Laws only enforce behavior in those who are inclined to obey the law in the first place. Criminals, who are not inclined to respect rules, are not deterred by what a rule or law demands of them.
This is plain common sense. Laws are for lawful people. They are the only group that laws can have any deterrence over.
Behavioral modification cannot come from legislation. This is a proven dismal failure. Societal standards must come from society itself. Using the law as a whipping post to (allegedly) enforce lawful behavior against those that do not feel constrained by lawful behavior simply doesn’t work.
Besides, I can easily find a number of “broken laws†that were violated by this particular case – and every other case. More laws aren’t what is needed, since they are useless anyway and only serve as a measuring stick for punishment for criminals that have broken the law. Think this through. This means they are of NO USE until after the crime has been committed. So they do not prevent crime by criminals, they only serve to punish criminals after they have committed the crime.
More laws, as found in Canada, England, Australia and other countries where similar crimes have occurred, will not stop crimes like this. And it won’t stop it in America.
If anything, simply having more “rules” merely encourages more rule breaking. Read more here.
“Everyone’s a Criminalâ€
http://www.whiskeyandgunpowder.com/Archives/2005/20050615.html
“Eye, Robotâ€
http://www.whiskeyandgunpowder.com/Archives/2007/20070214.html
“You, Robotâ€
http://www.whiskeyandgunpowder.com/Archives/2007/20070227.html
It isn’t more rules and control we need, but less. The onerous burden of laws we labor under is unbelievable. This is a sign of decaying society – the attempt to legislate everything under the sun. A truly free society would have very few laws. Laws don’t protect citizens. In reality, citizens protect citizens (including yourself).
It isn’t laws that make a free society, but the relative absence of laws. Modern society believes it’s legislators are supposed to create more laws, which are to be upheld by the courts, and enforced by the police, but this does nothing at all for personal freedoms. In fact, it’s a very dangerous model to build a society upon. This is why over two million Americans are in prison right now. I just read where some people have been held for 35 years in solitary confinement for crimes they didn’t do. In America.
Legislators believe it is their duty to enact more and more laws, always looking for something to legislate, something to regulate, something to tax and even someplace to spend. It never even occurs to them to stop all of this activity and let the people alone, that they can quite effectively govern themselves and tend to their own affairs without high level interference.
The end result is what we have today. An overbearing burden of laws that number in the hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions. Nobody really knows, the number is that large and that hard to comprehend.
Another sign of a free society would be a very small, limited government. Not one of the advanced, developed nations on Earth (First World nations) has such a government and yet they declare themselves to be “free societiesâ€. Free from what, exactly? The reality is, it’s pay as you go and obey or else. They call such governments “tax and spend†for a reason. Their upheld by a huge preponderance of laws that only serve to maintain a grossly bloated government, huge military-industrial complexes, and wanton deficit spending. There are many other signs of truly restrictive societies, but I won’t bore everyone with details.
I have long believed that freedom will never be found in modern society, because it is contradictory to the very fabric of that society. Freedom is what the Founding Fathers of the US tried to create. Unfortunately, the anti-Federalists lost that battle.
Governments like what we have today simply aren’t needed. They are an archaic throwback to colonial expansion and domination.
But just wait – our legislatures will promise to “rescue us†once again from these type of terrible crimes. That these always prove to be outright lies based on fabrications will elude them still.
Paul Craig Roberts covers this well, here:
http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts04172007.html
Hey V,
It’s quite possible, and even *more* effective to not use physical violence against your children. Physical violence against children is the very thing that makes children more willing to drink the Kool-Aid. Read Alfie Kohn to get you started on ways to teach your children responsibility, respect, and self-actualization without manipulating them into being the little robots our society expects of them. I love how my sweet little girls stand up for themselves when told to drink.
20APRIL1889: Hitler’s Birthday
19APRIL1992: The ATF/FBI attempted raid on Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge
19APRIL1993: The Branch Davidians at Waco burned by ATF/FBI
19APRIL1995: OKC Bombing
20APRIL1999: Columbine Massacre
16APRIL2007: Virginia Tech Massacre
Cho mentioned Klebold and Harris in his rants.
Excellent background research on the sister.
Check six.
Yeah d, I was about to say the same thing. In fact, regardless of the implications it has for conspiracy theories, it does sound like Cho was abused.
You really think physical violence is going to work to treat deep-seated, existential depression? (You don’t sound like a “conspiracy theorist” (whatever that is) so I’ll assume you accept the consensus diagnosis of mental illness.) I myself was extremely depressed during my teen years, though I dunno how I compare to Cho. If I had had someone beating me, it would have made my behavior worse, not better. My dad hit me once, and not in a very extreme way, and I took it out on him by leaving and moving in with my mom. If I had not had that outlet, and had been consistently physically (and possibly sexually, as it seems in Cho’s case) abused, I can’t say what I would have done, but it would probably have been retaliatory.
Incidentally, where were the parents when he was out training with his guns and playing counterstrike 20 hours a day? Parents that hit are the kind to think hitting solves everything, and never bother to do any actual parenting.
(BTW I played counterstrike many hours a day and still do. My parents weren’t around either, I guess the difference was in my demeanor and the fact that I was NOT hit or abused. I went to a high-end high school full of bright kids where there was almost no bullying. And also that it’s pretty hard to get guns in NYC unless you hang out with a really rough crowd.)
Still a bit more to say (sorry) this time on the conspiracy angle. I think it’s worth looking at that the conspiracy theory culture has caught on in a sort of mainstream movement. Whenever any movement grows it attracts fanatics and partisans. Cho may have been one such person. Maybe he was never actually abused, but was simply fascinated by the stories he’d heard. Maybe the dark politics he followed colored his view of the world with a black marker, until it looked like a truly vile place, unworthy of mercy or redemption.
…Then again, 2/3 shots were kills? Its pretty amazing even when 2/3 shots are HITS!
Peregrino: “Having said all this, the chances for a snap case to be related to an employee of a sinister government contractor is good in this day and age, especially in Virginia where half the people work for the U. S. government”
As a Virginia resident, I can assure that nothing close to half the population works for the US government.
I couldn’t help but wonder if the timing of this wasn’t to distract from Kucinich’s plans, crafted over the weekend and to have been launched this week, to indroduce articles of impeachment against Cheney.
I had the same suspicions re mind control as well after my own extensive reading on the subject. See my post re this at http://realhistoryarchives.blogspot.com/2007/04/kucinichs-impeachment-plans-for-cheney.html.
A screenshot of Cho’s “manifesto”:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×694618
I’ll wait and see if better copies come out (probably.) If this is a psy-op, it helps to have a message to go with it.
ah one more post, sorry… some video is up at http://liveleak.com/
Warning, there is a lot of graphic stuff on that site. Nothing that plays by itself of anything, but…
Hey Rabair,
It’s a documented fact that the CIA worked for decades, using Nazi scientists, test results, and methods (MKULTRA,OPERATION PAPERCLIP etc. – – this a fact, the CIA admitted it at the Church hearings although the CIA Director stated he burned most all of the records to keep the public from knowing the full truth – – some democratic country???)looking for ways to create Manchurian Candidate programmed killers and as ways to control the population.
The DEA Agent author of Powderburns, documenting CIA involvement in drug importation to USA, recorded how many of these agents had a strong belief that the people of the US were too “free” and something needed to be done about it . . . There has been lots of research proving that the CIA operated psychological operations in San Quentin among other places and people like Cinque DeFreeze were subjects of CIA mind control expert Colston Westbrook (http://www.nypress.com/17/50/news&columns/paulkrassner2.cfm) – – he later “escaped” and was identified as head of the SLA in their “terrorism”, Patty Hearst abduction, etc. which then was used to discredit and smear the “left” in the USA . . . there is strong evidence Charles Manson came out of the same type program, and that the Jonestown massacre was not as portrayed in the media http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/mass/jonestown/connections_5.html . . . quite often there is a military connection also with these types of killins and interaction with Westbrook types (the Columbine incident, with records just sealed for 20 years by the judge also has many questions not answered http://www.konformist.com/1999/colorado.htm . . .
All you need to do is some research and stop believing what you are fed in the controlled media that exists in the USA and most countries and then you will stop posting comments such as you have made here . . . to say questions should not be asked in these cases given the history we do know about (and God knows what has been fully suppressed?)is the result of a programmed unquestioning dull mind and none of us can afford that anymore . . . head to “FOX NEWS” for your “entertainment” – – you’re their target audience.
ok, in my opinion you guys are going overboard with this false flag stuff… just because two things happen at the same time (Iraq going down the tubes + blacksburg) does not mean that they bear a causal relation to each other.
about Cho’s marksmanship: i don’t think it would be at all difficult to do what he did — 15 or 20 seated, defenseless kids in a room at close range? that’s called fish in a barrel. the fact that he had two handguns meant no one could cross the moat between the first row of chairs and the front of the classroom, b/c he was essentially covering himself with a second gun at all times.
i know this will inspire a lot of eye rolling at my supposed naivete, but i think that the really valuable insights that show up on this site just get diluted by this type of hocus pocus.
Thanks for fleshing out exactly what I suspected about this diversion. People who think us “conspiracy wackos” are wrong, should ask more questions and read more disstenting opinions. Just like the WTC, I wonder who got conveniently taken out during the death drills, I never hear anything about that but I bet there’s a couple someones in both cases. Plus, isn’t VT sort of a war/death/carnage type college anyway? So why the big surprise?
I do think Hera and Rabair present an excellant voice though. Sometimes there are coincidences and randomn tradegies. Sometimes a “cigar” is in fact just a “cigar”. Its just that there are so many “cigars” these days.
surely you jest. there’s just no way any government, especially the us, would ever stoop to such horrific extremes. i mean, mind control? get real. we don’t know of any historical examples of this, and had there been, we would have demanded an end to such monstrousness. those involved would have been hanged or imprisoned for life. we’re good people.
we all know that history is a series of accidents. people don’t actually get together to plan and carry out their plans against the wishes of the populace. politicians and corporoticians are basically good folks. a few bad apples, but aren’t there always a few in any group?
it’s about time we got together as a people and put an end to the violence propagating bile of the imus’s and tarantino’s of the world. obama was right. we need to open our eyes to the linguistic and multi-media violence of people like imus and tarantino and how it relates to the physical carnage of these mass murders and other violent endeavors.
we need to take action to stop folks from beating the drums of violent world views and philosophies. these “intellectuals” and “artists” are just as much to blame as their goon terrorists who actually carry out the bloodbaths. the sooner everyone figures this out, the sooner our world will become safe and sane.
s