Virginia Tech Shooting: I’ve Already Seen Enough
April 18th, 2007I thought that I should designate a single post to all of the Virginia Tech related analysis, to parse out some of the key signals from the noise. Within 30 minutes of actually sitting down to read about the incident, I had already seen enough.
At first, I was looking for—and found—indications of trauma induced mind control.
According to ABC News:
Lucinda Roy, a co-director of the creative writing program at Virginia Tech, taught Cho in a poetry class in fall of 2005 and later worked with him one-on-one after she became concerned about his behavior and themes in his writings.
Roy spoke outside her home Tuesday afternoon, saying that there was nothing explicit in Cho’s writings, but that threats were there under the surface.
Roy told ABC News that Cho seemed “extraordinarily lonely–the loneliest person I have ever met in my life.” She said he wore sunglasses indoors, with a cap pulled low over his eyes. He whispered, took 20 seconds to answer questions, and took cellphone pictures of her in class. Roy said she was concerned for her safety when she met with him.
She said she notified authorities about Cho, but said she was told that there would be too many legal hurdles to intervene. She said she asked him to go to counseling, but he never did.
One play attributed to him, called “Richard McBeef,” describes a 13-year-old boy who accuses his stepfather of pedophilia, and ends with the boy’s death.
In another, called “Mr. Brownstone,” three high-school students face an abusive teacher.
“I wanna kill him,” says one character.
“I wanna watch him bleed like the way he made us kids bleed,” says another.
The two plays were posted on AOL after a staffer named Ian MacFarlane, a December 2006 graduate of Virginia Tech, brought them to his editors’ attention.
MacFarlane said he was in a class with Cho in which students were required to post their plays online for peer review and comment.
In a different ABC News article, Brad Garrett, a former FBI agent / ABC News consultant, provided some interesting commentary:
The date of the first gun purchase will likely serve as the time of “some triggering mechanism that was very important” to Cho said Garrett, an expert on profiling murderers.
That made me want to read through the first ABC News article again, and I noticed something that I had skipped the first time.
Let’s look at Sun-Kyung, Cho’s sister:
Cho’s parents live in a townhouse development in Centreville, a suburb of Washington. They own a dry-cleaning shop nearby.
His older sister, Sun-Kyung, graduated from Princeton University in 2004. A source, who asked to be identified as a senior Administration official, said she works for McNeil Technologies, a firm contracted by the State Department to manage reconstruction efforts in Iraq.
Woh. Ok. Stop right there.
What does McNeil Technologies do?
Oh, the usual black bag intelligence agency cut out kind of stuff… Actually, there’s more here than you can shake a stick at.
The McNeil Technologies Services page lists the following categories: Language Services, Information Management Services, Program Support Services, Security Services, Intelligence Services.
I clicked on Intelligence Services first.
Intelligence Services -> Overview
McNeil”s Intelligence and Language Center (ILC) provides unmatched expertise in the areas of Intelligence and Language Services. The combination of Intelligence and Language guarantees our clients mission success.
Our services and capabilities include:
* Intelligence Architecture Operations in support of the US Army Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC).
* Open Source Intelligence (OSINT) which supports the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) and other government agencies, and
* HUMINT (Human Intel) operations in support of DIA, or with federal counter Intel outsourcing effort. Our
* Linguist operations, with linguists deployed in various theaters of operations,
* Translation operations which include document and website translation,
* Testing, Training and Research of language and cultural awareness.
Under Intelligence Services -> Key Solutions, we see:
HUMINT Operations:
Classified CONUS and OCONUS support by seasoned Intel professionals.
That means support for intelligence operations inside and outside of the continental United States.
Then we have:
Security Services -> Overview
The Security Center at McNeil Technologies is a dynamic and growing Center providing full spectrum security services.
* It is one of only three competitively-selected providers, and the only Washington-based provider of airport passenger/baggage screening services under Transportation Security Administration’s Screener Partnership Program. McNeil provides service at Greater Rochester International Airport.
* Physical Security which includes Access control, escorts, and Guard services, Electronic systems monitoring, as well as classified mailroom and package inspection.
* Personnel and Logistics Support is provided by MILPO operations
* Program Security consists of arms control and nonproliferation support, treaty vulnerability assessments, and support of Balanced Survivability Assessments
* McNeil Security Inc. – For more information about the McNeil Security subsidiary go to the website at www.mcneilsecurity.com.
Cui bono? Who benefits? At some point in the future, would a company that provides physical security for large organizations benefit from what just happened at Virginia Tech? It’s obviously just a coincidence that the sister of the shooter works for a large provider of these services. Right? A company with more publicly stated connections to U.S. Intelligence than you can shake a stick at… A company that is providing ongoing support to current U.S. Intelligence operations…
Feel free to keep clicking around on that site, if you dare. Intelligence operations. Physical security operations at airports and top secret government facilities. Government document declassification. Handling of information related to weapons of mass destruction… It goes on and on.
I’m not trying to sell you a set of steak knives: But wait, there’s more.
Who/what owns McNeil Technologies?
According to the McNeil Technologies About page:
In July 2004 Veritas Capital acquired McNeil Technologies and its subsidiaries.
Veritas Capital is a private equity investment firm headquartered in New York. Founded in 1992, Veritas’ primary objective is to partner with experienced and entrepreneurial management teams to develop leading companies in their respective markets. As a long-term investor in the defense, aerospace, and government services sectors, Veritas has established a Defense & Aerospace Advisory Council consisting primarily of former high-ranking government and military officials. The Council provides Veritas with insight into industry trends from both a business and policy perspective. Veritas’ principals bring over six decades of collective investing experience through a variety of economic conditions.
With over a $ 1 billion in investments, Veritas is able to offer unprecedented resources to its portfolio companies to help them satisfy their clients’ requirements.
Moving on to Veritas Capital, again, take your pick of what to look at there, but with two board members being associated with the Council on Foreign Relations…
Like I said, I’ve already seen enough.
UPDATE 1: 4/19/07: Is the South Korean Film Oldboy Somehow Related?
I know I said that I’ve already seen enough, but it’s actually difficult to keep up with the rest of the news without bumping into this story.
The New York Times posted a brief story about how Cho appears to be imitating a scene from Oldboy, a 2003 South Korean film. I gathered the appropriate images from Cho’s “multi media manifesto” and Oldboy.
Cho and Oldboy?
If you don’t know what Oldboy is about, you might think pfft!, so what, two Korean dudes with hammers, God damned conspiracy theorists… I’ve never heard of the film before today. What’s it about? See for yourself. The parts about forced drugging, psychological torture and split personalities caught my attention. But to the growing number of people who insist that this has nothing to do with mind control (really! you conspiracy theorist whackos should just get a life!), this is just another coincidence. * yawn * Of course, your results may vary.
UPDATE 2: 4/20/07: Comment Moderation
This post is attracting the WRONG kind of traffic, and lots of it. The troll population has literally exploded.
So, some rules about comments:
1) Make sure your comment is on topic. For this post, it would help if you’ve read at least some of the literature on U.S. Government mind control programs.
2) If you have a personal issue with me or Cryptogon, comments on posts aren’t the place for that. Feel free to send me an email if you want. I may or may not respond. (Why not start your own I-Hate-Cryptogon blog, with round the clock coverage of why you hate Cryptogon? That may be a more productive use of your time.)
3) Be polite to other users.
4) Read rule #1 again.
UPDATE 3: 4/23/07: Cho Attended Same High School as Another “Lone Nut” Shooter
And the shootings occurred within one year of each other.
To quote the story, “It’s just a horrible coincidence… It’s hard to believe.”
But is it really that hard to believe?
Is it?
In general, when lies are told to Americans, everyone knows that there’s no point is telling small lies. Tell them whoppers. Tell them nonsense that wouldn’t even fly in a nut house full of raving lunatics. The more absurd the lies, the more Americans have to believe in multiple, ridiculous ‘coincidences’, the more readily they will internalize the programming. For people who managed to believe the Mohammad Atta magic passport story, and so many other absurdities, this will just be another walk in the park.
Via: Chicago Tribune:
Fairfax County, Va., police investigators said today that Virginia Tech gunman Cho Seung-Hui was a 2003 graduate of the same high school attended by an 18-year-old who went on a shooting rampage last year at a Virginia police station, killing two officers.
Michael Kennedy, armed with an AK-47, fired more than 70 rounds in the parking lot of the Sully District police station on May 8, killing Det. Vicky Armel and Master Police Officer Michael Garbarino. Kennedy was shot to death by police.
Cho and Kennedy lived in Centreville and graduated from Westfield High School, said Officer Courtney Thibault of the Fairfax County Police Department. She said Cho graduated four years ahead of Kennedy.
Once Cho’s identify was released by police in Blacksburg, Va., home of Virginia Tech, Thibault said Fairfax County police launched an investigation to determine if there was any connection between the two shooters. She said they found nothing tying the two young men together.
“It’s just a horrible coincidence,” she said. “It’s hard to believe.”
UPDATE 4: 4/27/07: System Planning Corporation Involved with Investigation
System Planning Corporation is such a profoundly spooky outfit that it creeps me out just thinking about it. But I’m sure that it’s just another coincidence that one of DARPA’s largest contractors—a private company involved with some of the U.S. Government’s blackest projects—is involved with the investigation into the Virginia Tech shooting.
Via: Washington Post:
An Arlington County consulting firm that evaluated the emergency response to the 1999 Columbine High School shootings and other public safety crises has been hired by state officials to assist the panel that will investigate the Virginia Tech massacre.
TriData Corp. will provide staff and research support to the eight-member panel named last week by Gov. Timothy M. Kaine (D). Kaine, in Northern Virginia yesterday for a community meeting with the South Korean ambassador, met privately with Philip S. Schaenman, TriData’s president. Schaenman said the contract terms are being worked out.
A division of defense contractor System Planning Corp., TriData is best known for studying fire safety issues. But it also conducted a study for the Federal Emergency Management Agency on police and emergency medical response to the shootings at Columbine, in which two students killed 15, including themselves, at the Colorado school. The report pointed out problems with communications and management of the disaster scene.
The firm was retained by Virginia officials to review the chaotic response to a false positive anthrax test at the Pentagon’s remote mail facility and a similar alarm at Defense Department sites in Fairfax County in March 2005.
Again the firm concluded that poor communication and unclear chains of command hampered coordination between federal officials and local jurisdictions. Schaenman told a congressional committee that the response was “the homeland security version of the fog of war.”
More: Cho Seung-hui and the Not So Secret School
looks like the company that funds mcneil also funds dyncorp. just google dyncorp to see how nice they are.
IT PROVIDED AN EXCUSE NOT TO THINK…
“What no one seemed to notice. . . was the ever widening gap. . .between the government and the people. . . And it became always wider. . . the whole process of its coming into being, was above all diverting, it provided an excuse not to think for people who did not want to think anyway . . . (it) gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about . . .and kept us so busy with continuous changes and ‘crises’ and so fascinated . . . by the machinations of the ‘national enemies,’ without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us. . .
From Milton Mayer, They Thought They Were Free, The Germans, 1938-45 (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1955)
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11845.htm
Here are some reassuring prayers for the ‘Coincidence-theorists’ out there:
JFK was killed by a lone deranged killer.
RFK was killed by a lone deranged killer.
Virginia Tech students killed by a deranged killer.
Archduke Franz Ferdinand was killed by a lone deranged killer.
Abraham Lincoln was killed by a lone deranged killer.
The government will protect you.
You are safe.
Oil will never run out.
Our environment will last forever.
Go shopping.
TMB – it’s spelled Faux News. ;D
I understand that Savage said today on his show that the parents spend 10 years in Saudi Arabia.
Of course, that’s merely another “coincidence.”
My first thoughts and current for that matter are that of a modern day MK-ULTRA as every point I land upon suggests as much. I’m sure others here are familiar with Sirhan Sirhan. Well, after he committed ‘murder’ they found a notebook in the place he was reportingly previously staying at before the event in question. Inside this notebook they found he jotted the words “”Die Die RFK must die” repeatedly. Guess what they ‘found’ in one of Cho Seung-hui’s school papers? Exact same thing only it was the name Dick instead of RFK.
According to media outlets Cho Seung-hui was on ‘anti-depressants’ which implies he must have also been seeing a psychologist of some sort on campus. I’m lead to believe his mind was tampered, conditioned, manipulated, (however you want to say it) since sometime in 2005 leading up to the shooting.
The purposes for these actions are endless so I’ll mention a few and then you can all drawn your own conclusions. Yesterday morning the first thing I heard on the radio was that ‘out of control’ students in the area of Wisconsin would now be forced to wear plastic handcuffs. I’m sure their repeated mention of them being plastic will ease the minds of parents hey? Also on CNN I kept hearing reporters mention that privacy laws should be revised because of Cho Seung-hui’s ‘behavior’ before the shooting. As I said though, the purposes are endless.
There’s a discrepancy between most of the reports of Cho wearing a “boy scout outfit” and this one:
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=22&art_id=nw20070418093520510C653345
“He hid his face behind a mask and had his brown-coloured cap lowered to his eyes. He wore glasses and something like a black ammo jacket,” Park said, according to the website of JoongAng Ilbo newspaper.
So which is it?… a “boy scout outfit” or a guy wearing a mask, cap, glasses. No one else mentions Cho wearing a mask. This suggests a second shooter who “finished the job” which explains how so many got killed in such a short amount of time. In the confusion, I doubt if details like a mask will be noted by most people.
So if this is the case, then Cho first shows up, fires off rounds at the 2 classrooms, and the other shooter ( the real pro dressed like Cho) finishes off Cho and the rest. The second shooter then exchanges his filed off number guns for Cho’s, and leaves out the back in a predetermined route.
According to Faux News, the first shooter was arrested after the initial incident:
http://www.myfoxboston.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=2939412&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.3.1
He was photographed being arrested by students still on campus at the time:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/arrestedman.jpg
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1260892,00.html
Regardless of why it happened the lesson of this tragedy is simple:
The government cannot or will not protect you.
More rules, laws, restrictions, and bans cannot protect you.
Only YOU can protect you.
Cowardly cops with sub-machine guns and body armor hid behind trees as ‘madman’ went on killing spree
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/170407cantprotect.htm
someone mentioned that it was odd that he stopped at 32 and killed himself having plenty of ammo to take out more. the truth of the matter is, 33 is the “official” death toll, but 33 dead immediately struck me as being suspect, as this is typical code for “we done it” (our elitist masters, that is). notice when you watch any major event on the tele how official numbers always seem to tie in the number 11 or a factor thereof. 9/11. 7/7 bombings in London. 3/11 boming in madrid. Cho used a 9mm and a .22. The put the school on lockdown at 9:22 a.m. It goes on and on.
[…] cryptogon.com » Archives » Virginia Tech Shooting: I’ve Already Seen Enough Some people find conspiracies in everything. I definitely used to be one of those people. To me, the only suspicious thing about this is how Cho was so accurate. An ER doc said all the victims they saw were shot at least 3 times. Kevin brings up some (tags: conspiracy virginia vt_shootings) […]
Man, Veritas is a clearinghouse of evil corporations. Raytheon, DynCorp…Wasn’t DynCorp involved in a prostitution ring in Bosnia?
I cant read all the coments here, as there are now so many, but let me just say, this attack has means and motive for the US Government. Control the news in a time of possible crisis? Gun Control? School lockdowns? The US government likes creating nice, publicity stunts, to take away our freedom. I will bet that its going to be a whole lot harder to buy guns after this. I bet a lot of schools are going to change. I bet many Americans completely forgot whats going on around them, just this bullshit about the school shooting.
[…] other thoughts worth considering, go here and here. Posted by cadeveo Filed in hypnosis, conspiracy poetics, 9/11, everyday life, […]
[…] 21st, 2007 Found this link in the ongoing conversation at cryptogon re: Virginia […]
I too instantly thought conspiracy when the information on the events at VT started coming out. I am surprised that the average person is not questioning what is going on here. Do they not find it strange that he killed two people then 30 more two hours later? It is bull that the school could not warn everybody on campus and lockdown the school. Geez, what sort of people do we have working for our law enforcement! Even if they felt the initial killings were domestic and the killer left, I’m sure the people on campus would have appreciated that information.
I think part of the reason do not question is that we as a society, are brainwashed by violent movies and watching people kill others that it is almost ‘normal’ to us. Have you guys seen the previews for a new movie coming out? I do not know the name, but in the preview commercial it is about some sort of fight club with ten people and nine will die, and it tells us ‘that we get to watch’. I thought ‘Wow, how lucky that we getto watch people kill each other’.
[…] already mentioned elsewhere, the reported shooter, Cho Seung-Hui, has a sister who works for a corporation connected to […]
Look at the package that Cho allegedly sent:
A. Ismeal
88 Revol Dr
There is no such address. You check that for yourself. 88 is a common code white supremacists use to denote their beliefs as 8 is the 8th letter of the alphabet… “H”
88 = Heil Hitler
Revol is Lover spelled backwards
Note the timing of the event as Hitler’s birthday is 4/20.
The message: “It was from a ‘Hitler Lover'”
And no, Cho was not the “Hitler lover”, he was the patsy to be used as the ‘lone nut’ All Cho did was show up and pull the trigger in 2 classrooms and left and met the other guy who finished Cho off. Then the other guy goes back in dressed similarly and finished the operation. No one will be the wiser because little details will be missed at the height of their terror.
If the media is free to speculate before the police report has been put out, then so am I.
[…] Update 3 on the main post. Posted in Announcements | Top Of […]
Yo,
I noticed that return address too; I thought it might also refer to ‘Heinrich Himmler.” The ‘revol’ I thought meant ‘revolution.’
It should be noted that some have speculated that Erfurt(4-26-02) school shooter Robert Steinhauser, 19, chose that date because it was also the birthday of Rudolph Hess
Cho only shot in 2 classes? I thought there were casualties in 4 classrooms.
[…] Virginia Tech Shooting: I’ve Already Seen Enough I thought that I should designate a single post to all of the Virginia Tech related analysis, to parse out some of the key signals from the noise. Within 30 minutes of actually sitting down to read about the incident, I had already seen enough. (tags: virginia amok) […]
starviego,
That’s the problem. Witnesses place Cho in 2 classrooms while there casualties everywhere. Blood was in the hallway I believe. I do hope the police releases ALL of their data to the public showing where the bodies are and which guns the bullets came from. Did he use just the 9mm or did he use the .22 as well is not clear at this point.
Another interesting question:
Why would he file the numbers off the guns, but keep the receipt in his pocket during the shooting??
It takes serious intention, and IMHO if your intent enough to ground off the serials, your smart and intuitive enough to get rid of the paperwork. Another thing that vexes me is that he bought the guns on his credit card. He would have to know that the cops would put two and two together. Again, what is the purpose of grounding off the serials? Shady to say the least.
Another VTech Student gets Whacked
http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/114236
VIRGINIA BEACH — A Virginia Tech freshman who recently had returned to Chesapeake died Friday despite the efforts of people who pulled him from a burning car.
Margie Long, a police spokeswoman, identified the victim as Jeff Nielsen Santo Domingo Soriano of Chesapeake. He was flown to the trauma center at Sentara Norfolk General Hospital but died shortly after 6 p.m., Long said.
The single-vehicle wreck occurred about 2:30 p.m. in the 6000 block of Providence Road. Soriano was driving westbound toward Indian River Road when his vehicle flipped and rolled several times and struck a tree, Long said. Rob Waring heard the crash from inside the real estate office he manages. He found Soriano unconscious inside the vehicle.
Others had stopped to help. Together, they tried to pull open the driver-side door. “The door wouldn’t open, and the car was starting to burn,” Waring said. “We got the passenger door open after a minute, but the flames were starting to get pretty obnoxious,” Waring said. “We got a hold on the kid’s wrist and hauled him out and across the street.” Seconds later, “the car really took to burning,” he said.
As police and paramedics arrived, Waring started talking to the driver’s relative. “That’s when I found out he was a Tech undergrad who had just gotten home, so that sort of brought this terrible week into focus for me,” said Waring, who attended Tech in the 1970s.
[Comment: It wouldn’t surpirse me if this kid was an eyewitness who saw stuff he shouldn’t have and was talking about it. A couple of months after Columbine a student there died in a car crash. That student was possibly a witness to casualties in that school’s cafeteria, when officially there were no casualties there.]
Yeah, the serial numbers filed off is weird. It’s a lot of work cuz the serial numbers are in 3 places….
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1611948,00.htm
Gun Shop Owner said:
“Markell said the agents told him that Cho had filed off the serial number that is stamped into the weapon in three places. Filing serial numbers off guns doesn’t obliterate them, however — they are deeply impressed into the steel and can be raised with an acid bath. But the agents didn’t have to send the guns to the lab to find their origin, because they found the receipt.”
“The serial number is on the barrel, on the slide and on the bottom of the frame,” Markell said. “That’s quite a bit of work for anybody to do. Why anybody would go to that much trouble, because it had to take a long time, and then keep the receipt in his pocket?”
Also, I think this event is similar to the OJ Simpson case (see “Blood Oath” by Carl Jaspers) where it functions as a psy-op to pit Asians against upper middle class whites as the OJ case was used to pit whites against black men. there are many Asians in engineering schools, yet, it happened at one where it was predominatly white. And notice the not only the timing of the event to Hitler’s B-day, but the package was sent to NBC and on Sunday the 4/22 on NBC, James Sun (Korean-American) was one of the final 4 on the finale of the TV hit show The Apprentice.
The underlying message (assuming a psy-op) is that Asian males are not to be trusted and they are competeing for the same spots and they are loners, shy, foreign, weird…. yet quite cunning.
This comes at a time when Asian men are starting to gain some positive models in the media: James Sun, Sul Kwon (Survivor), Yao Ming, etc…
Just like OJ was a well respected black man who married a white woman. ther underlyuing message was that you can’t trust the black man cuz the hypersexualized black male is there to take your white woman away from you.
In both cases, the race card and the stereotypes are played up to the fullest to get people against each other and destabilize the U.S. so u;ltimately, there is civil unrest which gives the radical elements reason to suspend the Constitution & step in and restore order…. ie a bloodless coup.
Unlike the OJ case, the Cho case includes a mind control element.
South Korea has long standing ties to the U.S. intelligence establishment and its no coincidence that the shooter is S. Korean. The Unification Church run by Sun-Young Moon has long been suspected of being a U.S. intelligence front that figures heavily in mind control. Cho was born and raised in S. Korea and may have had contact with these mind control elements who’ve programmed him right from the start as they like to begin programming them before the age of 5.
Here’s a witness who claims he was told that Cho shot himself in the BACK of his head. Do people normally off themselves by shooting themselves in teh back of their head?
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21576202-661,00.html
When police reached the second floor, the firing had stopped and Cho was lying dead in a classroom.
“He opened fire to the back of his head and blew up the front part of his head, which has made it difficult to identify him,” Mr Chen said
There was a post much earlier in the comments alluding to the first shooting being the “business” and the second shooting the “cover”… But there has been little comment on this since; To me this would be the most direct reason for a psy-ops style operation such as this. Has anyone researched the first two victims and a possible motive for their death?
liyum, The first shooting would reinforce the stereotype of the Asian male as the loner, shy geek who was unsuccessful with women. So much so, he shot her and her “boyfriend”.
The second shooting ties in to the theme set forth in the first shooting….. this Asian guy is a geeky loner who is not successful with women and because of being spurned by that female, it was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Though he killed his spurned love interest; it was not enough, so he turned his rage to all those others who had wronged him in the past.
That is, of course, what you are supposed to believe. In a psy-op, its designed to change public opinion by working up the emotions of a large amount of people. Most people will not think critically about the facts & details surrounding the case. Most people will just think: Asian killed many white students, bans guns, Asians suspect from now on. A psy-op plays upon the simplicity of most people’s mindset.
You destabilize the U.S. the same way you destabilize a 3rd world country. You pit one group against another to ultimately create civil unrest. That gives the government a reason to overturn the Constitution & then step in and use either their military or an outsourced military firm like Blackwater USA (25,000 strong now, “Blackwater”, by Jeremy Scahill) to enforce order.
Yo,
The first victim was a girl he didn’t know and the guy shot was the RA who went to see what was happening.
I like the “theme” that you’re suggesting. It particularly fits in well with the racial unrest issues, such as Imus, that have been hitting the news suddenly.
Still, regardless of any sub-modalities, why the TWO shooting events when the first event smells like an assassination? Even if you’re right, it’s a loose thread that deserves attention.
FVK is well informed….
The press said last night that Cho bought one box of ammunition and went to a practice range a month ago to train for this massacre.
When I shoot at a range, one box of bullets is barely a warm up! He tripled tapped most victims
and changed clips in 1 or 2 seconds. He shot over 50 people and killed 32. That’s a 64% fatality rate with handguns (including a 22. cal Walther)
pretty friggin amazing for a college nerd newbie shooter.
By the way..anyone been to the post office recently (any damned post office!!) they all have cameras everywhere. So where are the pictures of Cho mailing his package to NBC Nightly news.
and that handwriting on the mailing label looks like it was written be the same guy who addressed the Anthrax labels to Daschle and others.
And didn’t they say he shot himself twice when he was suiciding himself…
What would be the motive? I’m going to enter the dark waters here and speculate. Alberto Gonzales was scheduled to testify in front of a Congressional committee on Monday, the day of the shooting. I’m going to guess that the Chairman of the committee received a Sunday night phone call, and heard, in good mafia lingo, “Go easy on Gonzales, or you’ll end up like Monday’s main headline.” The chairman cancelled the hearing for that day after the shooting. The excuse he gave was weak. My guess is that he met with the entire committee and spelled out the threat. If Gonzales stays in government and gets off the hook, my speculation will have some merit. Remember the anthrax letters went to three people, two politicians and a photojournalist who published pictures of Bush’s daughters drunk in public. That was a classic mafia hit and served as a warning to anyone else that “You don’t mess with Bush, see?”
Yes, Cho apparently shot himself….TWICE!
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/19/vtech.victims/index.html
Hmmm, have there been more recent lone gunman instances? Just in from http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,2061825,00.html
“But these 32 dead students follow in a cortege of identical tragedies: as soon as we knew this was just another deranged loner, what more was there to think? It happened in Dunblane, Germany, South Korea, Japan, Tasmania and elsewhere, routine school misfit revenges.”
The author of that last piece also mentions something about Public Compassion Fatigue — and it’s effect of numbing us to the daily horrors of death in Iraq. Is that the real flag? To make us more callous to death – so that when our neighbors get gunned down by government-sponsored security squads, we won’t resist?
V wrote: Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 8:43 am
Well, this is what happens when the U.S. Government says it’s illegal to physically discipline your kids. You can’t even say it or else your kids call the cops on you. Well dear U.S. lawmaker let’s rethink about “who†invented those laws, investigate their background and motive for suggesting those laws. I don’t mean to be right but if I knew that my parents will “BEAT†the hell out of me for doing such stupidity, I would would just chew my tongue, end of story. Like my grand pa used to say “beat those kids or they beat you and the world when they become olderâ€
Koreans DO beat their kids. It is not against their culture to beat their children. It is culturally demanded and many of them “excel” from this strict discipline. I’m not saying these parents did that. Always look for motive, and the sister-link had the most chance to bring in some overwhelmingly suppressive and technologically advanced mind control. A normal human being does not do these things to himself without a lot of aid and abettance. If someone can make you feel worthless enough you will agree to the terms of their “punishments”.
Now do something about it!!!
Stop giving yourself reasons. Stop second guessing. This has been going on for decades. Don’t wallow in all the misinformation. You are doing and reacting exactly the way THEY want you to. Do you honestly think THEY make mistakes, after decades of experience and years of researching, planning, and prepping? Could it not be designed exclusively for the 20% of the people like you in the world… keep you guessing and sound all the more ridiculous, when putting stuff like numbers, dates, and months together to make a conspiracy. THEY know you the 20% know… THEY’RE telling you to try and make sense of it. To put the pieces together in ways others will call you crazy. Because it will never make sense, it’s designed that way. You think you have woken like Neo. You’re not even close; Neo had the means to stop THEM. You have meaningless words, which most people find ridiculous. Do something about it!
Yo, d, you are both at odds with each other over the first victims… This sounds like disinformation is at work which makes me all the more suspicious.Yo, it is quite possible that your description of an overall destabilization goal is correct, but I’m sure ‘they’ can tack that onto any specific operation they want. I feel the cover-up involved with the first shootings demands further exploration. Yo, d, where are you getting your info on the victims?
I couldn’t find the original New York Times article, but here’s a link to the same article tying Thornhill, the avid shooter, to Hilscher, the girlfriend, at another news site: http://lledit.us.publicus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070418/NEWS/704180466/0/FRONTPAGE
I spent some time looking for the (any) article which described how Cho and the first two victims did not know each other. Equally puzzling is finding articles that DO link Cho and Hilscher even something claiming she spurned his advances or even that he had any interest in her.
I couldn’t find the original New York Times story linking Thornhill, the avid shooter, to Hilscher, the girlfriend, but I did find syndicated at http://lledit.us.publicus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070418/NEWS/704180466/0/FRONTPAGE
I found http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21576271-5001021,00.html which states “the gunman was involved in an argument with a girlfriend” but does not specifically name Cho as the arguing boyfriend anywhere in the article. Funny enough, Wikipedia has several references supporting that the media was speculating early on that Cho and Hilscher had a relationship, but later investigation showed there was NO relationship. See:
Miller, Greg. “Student recalls day when roommate was killed at dorm”, Los Angeles Times . Retrieved on 2007-04-18. http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-ex-roommate17apr18,1,401622.story?ctrack=2&cset=true
and
Anderson, Lisa “Cops: Va. Tech gunman was stalker; went to mental facility.” Chicago Tribune. Published April 18, 2007, 10:56 AM CDT. Retrieved April 18, 2007. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-070418vtechshootings,1,6460908.story?coll=chi-news-hed
So from my quick investigation, Yo may have gotten his info from the early news stories and I reconciled from the later stories.
Anyway, this leads me to think that Thornhill may have been the one in the dorm room argument, returned with the gun, killed her and the RA, had an “oh crap” moment and Daddy took care of the rest.
Here’s another perspective on all of this: A Crooked Broker Society: The Mainstream Media as Pimps and Panderers http://blogs.salon.com/0002007/2007/04/23.html#a1845
Hi
Um, maybe i’m just a little slow, but if this were true what does the government have to gain from this, what are they going to do with 32 dead bodies, will they experiment on them?
Or if this was some form of mind control, did they let him loose to see how many people he could kill?
Rose, its not the “government”; rather, a radical element within the government’s intelligence establishment who have access to the technologies and expertise available. What’s to be gained is shifting publio opinion. Look at public opinion. Read “Blood Oath by Carl Jaspers” and “Legacy of Deception by Steven Singular both books whose authors have interviewed the same killers of Nicole Brown Simpson and read for yourself WHY they did it.
A psy-op is a spectacular public relations campaigned waged by those who have military training. Think in terms of an “election campaign”.
And yes., mind control is but ONE tool they used to control Cho. Do take the time ot read the books posted. Its not easy to understand right away & requires a bit of study at first. Know the history and you’ll have the context to understand current events. Read the books.
I suppose the first thing taught at Psyop school is an unforgiving attitude and how to be extraordinarily thin-skinned. Balance those two attitudes with a revengeful nature and throw in a little weapons training and you have yourself a wind-up doll assassin high on some kind of mind controlling and perfectly legal mood altering drug who is being sent out to cause death and mayhem.
The Illuminati Boys will have a good enough reason to confiscate my guns if they get enough sheeple convinced that guns kill people instead of the real fact that people kill people. Tim McVeigh proved you don’t need guns to kill a lot of folks at one time.
Disney’s Eisner wants the public to be manipulated emotionally enough to the point where the guns are just tossed in 55-gallon drums free willed to be dumped in the ocean. Don’t these Illuminati boys realize that with each school shooting, us gun toting red-blooded American types hang on to our guns tighter and go out and buy more?
The school shooting in Pearl, Mississippi in 1997 was stopped by an assistant principal that ran out to his car and got his pistol and held it on the kid that had just killed two girls and wanted to kill more. This kid had knifed his mother to death that morning. I knew her boyfriend, btw. He worked for my mother. The Pearl shooting was a conspiracy among several other students, too.
Other mass shootings have been stopped by lawful gunowners who stood up with weapon in hand and stood their ground.
Last year, the VT admin folks banned guns on the campus. Last year, had this Cho fella pulled this stunt, he would have been shot dead and the death toll would not have been so high IMHO.
Do these facts blend into a conspiracy or just a lot of bad decisions and fear of lawsuits from the PC types?
It should be noted that additional shooters were present in the case of the Columbine, Erfurt, Red Lake, Montreal and possibly Springfield, OR(Kip Kinkel) shootings. It is a myth that the juvenile random-rage shooter acts alone. It is always done as a result of a group dynamic.
Michael Reagan wrote an excellent article that I would like to comment on. The other problem is the loophole that was written into the Virginia law that states something about a person who VOLUNTARILY goes for mental evaluation and rehabilitation, doesn’t have to legally declare this on a any forms, and this negative information didn’t show up when the South Korean legal resident alien, applied for the pistol purchases. The news report spoke only of State approval. This information has to be cleared by telephone, Federal FBI approval. Someone got their facts wrong. I believe that no resident alien should be approved for weapons purchase, as there are too many New World Order types who want to take all weapons away.
Do not overlook the possibility of hypnosis. I know there will be a huge crowd out there that are ready to scream, …”Oh, another conspiracy theorist”. If you really look deeply into the Sirhan Sirhan history, you will find he was closely compartmented, [denied contact with knowledgeable experts], after the RFK slaying, and when a certified psychiatrist started to put him into deep hypnosis, the guards came in, and stopped him from any other contact, with Sirhan. Many people will say, “The Manchurian Candidate” was only a movie.
There are two books out there that are an excellent starting point, into the validity of hypnosis, which can be purchased through used book stores, Ebay, and possibly Amazon. Both are written by an established Hypnotist, Emile Franchel, who had a TV program in 1956. The government shut down the program. The first book is “Demonstrable HYPNOTISM and Practical SELF-HYPNOSIS”, copyright 1956; the second book is “254 Questions And Answers On Practical Hypnotism And Auto-Suggestion Plus Glossary”, copyright 1957. This hypnotist was no fraud or crank, as he did documented work for Law Enforcement, and the Government. These two books are very honest, and lucid. Please do not discount this information. Use your resources to obtain these books and decide for yourself. Isn’t it very possible that this incident was helped along? Coming from South Korea? This persons background should be thoroughly investigated. If “blocks” are encountered during any intensive probe, then this should send up doubts, and confirmation of manipulation. We are the only “free” country left, to keep and bear arms, but the agenda is spreading fast to take away this right. Does that make sense, when you look at the South African rapes and murders, as well as the flood of illegal criminals coming across our borders daily? Have you read about MS-13?
About ten years ago a Navy Chaplain predicted we would have disenfranchised teenagers, roaming our country in vans, committing crimes at will. Have Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, and Charles Schumer thought of that, or do they care, with their executive protection, living in their “GOLD-fish Bowl”
This information is just the tip of the “iceberg”, but these two books are a legitimate beginning.
Robert
I don’t think there has to be a either a specific “motive,” or that the government has to have actual “mind control” capabilities, to wonder if this slaughter is the result of a government experiment. The stated objectives of MKULTRA are on the record in the Church testimony, and most of them are far less ambitious than actual “mind control.”
We know from the historical record that the government has conducted psychological experiments on unwilling subjects and killed a number of them in the process. The MKULTRA testimony makes it clear that one criteria for picking test subjects is that they have a record of instablity that undermines their credibility as a witness. We also have:
1. Tracking of prescriptions and treatment for mental problems. This is useful for a number of things besides experimentation (political blackmail and control for one), but it gives the government all the information it needs to identify potential test subjects.
2. Whosesale wire-tapping and number logging that enables the government to trace an entire social network through telephone contacts.
3 Internet monitoring that allows the government to trace an entire social network through the internet. (#2 and #3 are both very valuable tools for political blackmail and control, but they also help the government to determine just how socially isolated a potential test subject really is).
We know for a fact that our government has conducted extensive psychological experiments and some of them have resulted in the death of the subjects. We don’t know how far these experiments have gone or what results they have achieved. No mind control has to be involved here, or any specific objective. It could simply be a case of someone the government has selected for experimentation for the purposes of psychological breakdown –a stated objective of MKULTRA (to use psychological breakdown to sow construtive chaos, at home or abroad). They break the guy down and he goes nuts and shoots people. All the results serve the interests of the State –there is no downside for such an operation from the State’s perspective.
Hmmm…
“vt killer reportedly would punch sister as child”
http://abcnews.go.com/US/VATech/story?id=3063752&page=1
Yesterday I discussed some of the comments here with my son who has had state law enforcement training.
He was told in class that, nationally, only 4% of the people police shoot with handguns die; and that if lethal force was really needed, a handgun should be considered a temporary weapon for use until they could grab a rifle or a shotgun.
He also told me that he prefers to use a revolver because of all the semi-auto jams he witnessed on the firing range.
Furthermore, his class was told that due to the debacle in Columbine, if they should ever find themselves in a similar situation, they were to enter the building immediately, in teams of three, using alternating cover, and take out the shooters. They were not to wait for orders or instructions: they were to act immediately.
Someone asked for a list of the victims earlier in the discussions and I found them compiled on a blog here:
Ross Abdallah Almandine (20)
Christopher James (Jamie) Bishop (35)
Brian Bluhm (25)
Ryan Clark (22)
Austin Cloyd
Jocelyne Couture-Nowak
Daniel Perez Cueva (21)
Kevin Granata (45)
Mathew G Gwaltney (24)
Caitline Hammaren (19)
Jeremy Herbstritt (27)
Rachael Hill (18)
Emily Jane Hilscher (19)
Jarrett Lane (22)
Matt La Porte (20)
Henry Lee
Liviu Librescu (76)
GV Loganathan (51)
Partahi Lombantoruan (34)
Lauren McCain (20)
Daniel O’Neil (22)
Jaun Ortiz (26)
Minal Paschal (26)
Erin Peterson (18)
Michael Pohle (23)
Julia Pryde
Mary Karen Read (19)
Reema Samaha (18)
Waleed Mohamed Shaalan
Leslie Sherman
Maxine Turner (22)
Nicole White (20)
Cho Seung-Hui (23)
Very interesting discussions here. Thought-provoking at the least anyway. Thanks.
One doesn’t require training to kill someone with a handgun. There are thousands of killings with handguns each year in the US. Am I to believe the shooter in each case had extensive firearms training? With respect to the VT killings, it isn’t sensible to speculate on the skill of the shooter without knowing more about the circumstances of the shootings. For example, what were the circumstances of FVK’s LAPD example? Was the suspect behind a car? Running down a poorly lit street? Was it night or day? Or was he in a well lit classroom, seated at a desk, only feet away from his shooter? Can you see why these details might matter? I’m pretty sure most people could “triple tap” fish in a barrel.
RHB Do you shoot?