Virginia Tech Shooting: I’ve Already Seen Enough

April 18th, 2007

I thought that I should designate a single post to all of the Virginia Tech related analysis, to parse out some of the key signals from the noise. Within 30 minutes of actually sitting down to read about the incident, I had already seen enough.

At first, I was looking for—and found—indications of trauma induced mind control.

According to ABC News:

Lucinda Roy, a co-director of the creative writing program at Virginia Tech, taught Cho in a poetry class in fall of 2005 and later worked with him one-on-one after she became concerned about his behavior and themes in his writings.

Roy spoke outside her home Tuesday afternoon, saying that there was nothing explicit in Cho’s writings, but that threats were there under the surface.

Roy told ABC News that Cho seemed “extraordinarily lonely–the loneliest person I have ever met in my life.” She said he wore sunglasses indoors, with a cap pulled low over his eyes. He whispered, took 20 seconds to answer questions, and took cellphone pictures of her in class. Roy said she was concerned for her safety when she met with him.

She said she notified authorities about Cho, but said she was told that there would be too many legal hurdles to intervene. She said she asked him to go to counseling, but he never did.

One play attributed to him, called “Richard McBeef,” describes a 13-year-old boy who accuses his stepfather of pedophilia, and ends with the boy’s death.

In another, called “Mr. Brownstone,” three high-school students face an abusive teacher.

“I wanna kill him,” says one character.

“I wanna watch him bleed like the way he made us kids bleed,” says another.

The two plays were posted on AOL after a staffer named Ian MacFarlane, a December 2006 graduate of Virginia Tech, brought them to his editors’ attention.

MacFarlane said he was in a class with Cho in which students were required to post their plays online for peer review and comment.

In a different ABC News article, Brad Garrett, a former FBI agent / ABC News consultant, provided some interesting commentary:

The date of the first gun purchase will likely serve as the time of “some triggering mechanism that was very important” to Cho said Garrett, an expert on profiling murderers.

That made me want to read through the first ABC News article again, and I noticed something that I had skipped the first time.

Let’s look at Sun-Kyung, Cho’s sister:

Cho’s parents live in a townhouse development in Centreville, a suburb of Washington. They own a dry-cleaning shop nearby.

His older sister, Sun-Kyung, graduated from Princeton University in 2004. A source, who asked to be identified as a senior Administration official, said she works for McNeil Technologies, a firm contracted by the State Department to manage reconstruction efforts in Iraq.

Woh. Ok. Stop right there.

What does McNeil Technologies do?

Oh, the usual black bag intelligence agency cut out kind of stuff… Actually, there’s more here than you can shake a stick at.

The McNeil Technologies Services page lists the following categories: Language Services, Information Management Services, Program Support Services, Security Services, Intelligence Services.

I clicked on Intelligence Services first.

Intelligence Services -> Overview

McNeil”s Intelligence and Language Center (ILC) provides unmatched expertise in the areas of Intelligence and Language Services. The combination of Intelligence and Language guarantees our clients mission success.

Our services and capabilities include:

* Intelligence Architecture Operations in support of the US Army Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC).
* Open Source Intelligence (OSINT) which supports the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) and other government agencies, and
* HUMINT (Human Intel) operations in support of DIA, or with federal counter Intel outsourcing effort. Our
* Linguist operations, with linguists deployed in various theaters of operations,
* Translation operations which include document and website translation,
* Testing, Training and Research of language and cultural awareness.

Under Intelligence Services -> Key Solutions, we see:

HUMINT Operations:
Classified CONUS and OCONUS support by seasoned Intel professionals.

That means support for intelligence operations inside and outside of the continental United States.

Then we have:

Security Services -> Overview

The Security Center at McNeil Technologies is a dynamic and growing Center providing full spectrum security services.

* It is one of only three competitively-selected providers, and the only Washington-based provider of airport passenger/baggage screening services under Transportation Security Administration’s Screener Partnership Program. McNeil provides service at Greater Rochester International Airport.
* Physical Security which includes Access control, escorts, and Guard services, Electronic systems monitoring, as well as classified mailroom and package inspection.
* Personnel and Logistics Support is provided by MILPO operations
* Program Security consists of arms control and nonproliferation support, treaty vulnerability assessments, and support of Balanced Survivability Assessments
* McNeil Security Inc. – For more information about the McNeil Security subsidiary go to the website at www.mcneilsecurity.com.

Cui bono? Who benefits? At some point in the future, would a company that provides physical security for large organizations benefit from what just happened at Virginia Tech? It’s obviously just a coincidence that the sister of the shooter works for a large provider of these services. Right? A company with more publicly stated connections to U.S. Intelligence than you can shake a stick at… A company that is providing ongoing support to current U.S. Intelligence operations…

Feel free to keep clicking around on that site, if you dare. Intelligence operations. Physical security operations at airports and top secret government facilities. Government document declassification. Handling of information related to weapons of mass destruction… It goes on and on.

I’m not trying to sell you a set of steak knives: But wait, there’s more.

Who/what owns McNeil Technologies?

According to the McNeil Technologies About page:

In July 2004 Veritas Capital acquired McNeil Technologies and its subsidiaries.

Veritas Capital is a private equity investment firm headquartered in New York. Founded in 1992, Veritas’ primary objective is to partner with experienced and entrepreneurial management teams to develop leading companies in their respective markets. As a long-term investor in the defense, aerospace, and government services sectors, Veritas has established a Defense & Aerospace Advisory Council consisting primarily of former high-ranking government and military officials. The Council provides Veritas with insight into industry trends from both a business and policy perspective. Veritas’ principals bring over six decades of collective investing experience through a variety of economic conditions.

With over a $ 1 billion in investments, Veritas is able to offer unprecedented resources to its portfolio companies to help them satisfy their clients’ requirements.

Moving on to Veritas Capital, again, take your pick of what to look at there, but with two board members being associated with the Council on Foreign Relations

Like I said, I’ve already seen enough.

UPDATE 1: 4/19/07: Is the South Korean Film Oldboy Somehow Related?

I know I said that I’ve already seen enough, but it’s actually difficult to keep up with the rest of the news without bumping into this story.

The New York Times posted a brief story about how Cho appears to be imitating a scene from Oldboy, a 2003 South Korean film. I gathered the appropriate images from Cho’s “multi media manifesto” and Oldboy.


Cho and Oldboy?

If you don’t know what Oldboy is about, you might think pfft!, so what, two Korean dudes with hammers, God damned conspiracy theorists… I’ve never heard of the film before today. What’s it about? See for yourself. The parts about forced drugging, psychological torture and split personalities caught my attention. But to the growing number of people who insist that this has nothing to do with mind control (really! you conspiracy theorist whackos should just get a life!), this is just another coincidence. * yawn * Of course, your results may vary.

UPDATE 2: 4/20/07: Comment Moderation

This post is attracting the WRONG kind of traffic, and lots of it. The troll population has literally exploded.

So, some rules about comments:

1) Make sure your comment is on topic. For this post, it would help if you’ve read at least some of the literature on U.S. Government mind control programs.

2) If you have a personal issue with me or Cryptogon, comments on posts aren’t the place for that. Feel free to send me an email if you want. I may or may not respond. (Why not start your own I-Hate-Cryptogon blog, with round the clock coverage of why you hate Cryptogon? That may be a more productive use of your time.)

3) Be polite to other users.

4) Read rule #1 again.

UPDATE 3: 4/23/07: Cho Attended Same High School as Another “Lone Nut” Shooter

And the shootings occurred within one year of each other.

To quote the story, “It’s just a horrible coincidence… It’s hard to believe.”

But is it really that hard to believe?

Is it?

In general, when lies are told to Americans, everyone knows that there’s no point is telling small lies. Tell them whoppers. Tell them nonsense that wouldn’t even fly in a nut house full of raving lunatics. The more absurd the lies, the more Americans have to believe in multiple, ridiculous ‘coincidences’, the more readily they will internalize the programming. For people who managed to believe the Mohammad Atta magic passport story, and so many other absurdities, this will just be another walk in the park.

Via: Chicago Tribune:

Fairfax County, Va., police investigators said today that Virginia Tech gunman Cho Seung-Hui was a 2003 graduate of the same high school attended by an 18-year-old who went on a shooting rampage last year at a Virginia police station, killing two officers.

Michael Kennedy, armed with an AK-47, fired more than 70 rounds in the parking lot of the Sully District police station on May 8, killing Det. Vicky Armel and Master Police Officer Michael Garbarino. Kennedy was shot to death by police.

Cho and Kennedy lived in Centreville and graduated from Westfield High School, said Officer Courtney Thibault of the Fairfax County Police Department. She said Cho graduated four years ahead of Kennedy.

Once Cho’s identify was released by police in Blacksburg, Va., home of Virginia Tech, Thibault said Fairfax County police launched an investigation to determine if there was any connection between the two shooters. She said they found nothing tying the two young men together.

“It’s just a horrible coincidence,” she said. “It’s hard to believe.”

UPDATE 4: 4/27/07: System Planning Corporation Involved with Investigation

System Planning Corporation is such a profoundly spooky outfit that it creeps me out just thinking about it. But I’m sure that it’s just another coincidence that one of DARPA’s largest contractors—a private company involved with some of the U.S. Government’s blackest projects—is involved with the investigation into the Virginia Tech shooting.

Via: Washington Post:

An Arlington County consulting firm that evaluated the emergency response to the 1999 Columbine High School shootings and other public safety crises has been hired by state officials to assist the panel that will investigate the Virginia Tech massacre.

TriData Corp. will provide staff and research support to the eight-member panel named last week by Gov. Timothy M. Kaine (D). Kaine, in Northern Virginia yesterday for a community meeting with the South Korean ambassador, met privately with Philip S. Schaenman, TriData’s president. Schaenman said the contract terms are being worked out.

A division of defense contractor System Planning Corp., TriData is best known for studying fire safety issues. But it also conducted a study for the Federal Emergency Management Agency on police and emergency medical response to the shootings at Columbine, in which two students killed 15, including themselves, at the Colorado school. The report pointed out problems with communications and management of the disaster scene.

The firm was retained by Virginia officials to review the chaotic response to a false positive anthrax test at the Pentagon’s remote mail facility and a similar alarm at Defense Department sites in Fairfax County in March 2005.

Again the firm concluded that poor communication and unclear chains of command hampered coordination between federal officials and local jurisdictions. Schaenman told a congressional committee that the response was “the homeland security version of the fog of war.”

More: Cho Seung-hui and the Not So Secret School

126 Responses to “Virginia Tech Shooting: I’ve Already Seen Enough”

  1. peter Says:

    Ok, so what are you implying? From your other post, 1 of 2 people get cash from uncle sam. So the probability in this case was someone the shooter knew was sucking the gov’t teet.

    You seem to be implying this might be a gov’t op. That had occurred to me. Gonzales’ feet about to be stuck in the fire, kucinich beating the impeachment drum, housing meltdown, increased casualties in iraq since this past winter. The sheep need to be distracted?

    or is it just a huge coincidence that the shooter happened to lose his shit when and where he did? In our lovely world of ‘merica, i’m surprised people don’t lose their shit more often.

  2. billybob Says:

    ah, come on!!!!! he was mentally ill. the school was warned. they did nothing. funeral homes are making money. the end.

  3. FVK Says:

    As a firearms instructor I tell you it sounds fishy. Most people (unless heavily trained and highly skilled) suck with handguns. For example: Recent LA police shooting: 112 rounds fired from close range, nicked the suspect (who was NOT shooting back) once.

    So you’re telling me this college kid, a troubled loner, fatally shoots 32 people with a 9mm Glock 19 and a .22 caliber Walther? Was he a professionally trained assassin?

    You don’t learn how to shoot from playing X-Box. Something doesn’t add up.

  4. Jeit Kondo Says:

    This kid has clearly been molested, reading his writings. Not only that it looks to be violent, he’s been really abused. And with his sister’s connections, it recalled the Franklin Cover-up

  5. cryingfreeman Says:

    Even the way he stopped seem suspect. With ammo left and potential victims aplenty, he suddenly and surprisingly took himself out (all accordingly to the UK’s Daily Mail yesterday).

    Excellent research by the way, Kevin.

  6. Jeannette Says:

    Funny that you mention the Franklin Cover-up…I thought the same when I saw the play he allegedly wrote. Trauma-induced mind control is nearly a definite, given all of the descriptions of Cho’s calm, complacent, disassociative manner during the shootings. Interesting information about his sister, as well. FVK makes a point I’ve been wondering about all along: where the hell did this kid learn how to shoot like that with handguns? There is really something about mid-April, though, that’s for sure. The weirdness of all of this is compounded by the fact that a Colorado judge recently ordered the Columbine files to be sealed for 20 years. Needless to say, it’s doubtful that we’ll ever know the full story in either the Columbine OR Va Tech incidents. There is a lot more than meets the eye here…

  7. d Says:

    I’m interested in who this gun fan “Karl D. Thornhill” is (student at Radford University) and, besides his link to the first victim (Emily Jane Hilscher), his link to the Corporati. What is also interesting is how Cho appeared to possibly have been there solely to assassinate her… the RA was collateral. So he stopped shooting for almost 2 hours and then goes on a rampage? Circuits overloaded is my guess… op gone awry. I bet Cho was supposed to self-terminate after the first killing. I’m betting someone is nervous and is likely to make mistakes or miss evidence.

    And what about that odd Secret Service shooting yesterday? News reports make it sound like a “Barney Fife” incident… was it related to that package scare at the White House? Odd that the timing is so soon after the VT shooting.

  8. Robert S Says:

    I agree with FVK. I also thought it damn fishy that this kid was such a good shot. Using approximate numbers, he killed 30 and he winged 10-15, so at worst he killed 2 out of 3 that he shot. That seems like a pretty damn good kill rate for an amateur. Hell, I suspect it is a pretty good kill rate for a pro also.

    I’ve been watching the news conferences from the beginning, and it looks and smells fishy, as though the school Prez and his chief sad-sack hog were trying to hide something. I can’t figure out what, but I have never seen folk so evassive. Also, has their been any release of the names of the dead from an official source yet? I find that real suspect also. I don’t mean what the AP has pieced together, but a release from either the hospital, or the state hogs.

    This case will no doubt fall into the memory hole, and be forgotten with everyone looking sad. But I think something very wierd went down at VT.

  9. Anonymous Says:

    Shot himself in the back of the head, I read

  10. tito2 Says:

    Thank You FVK!!! I’ve been going nuts about this for the past two days. I’m not a profesional shooter, but I shoot handguns a little bit (couple hundred rounds a year). I can’t imagine how many rounds that would take. Fishy is right.

  11. tito2 Says:

    My first thought was AR15, but when they said pistols. I started thinking about shot placement and efficiency. At best it’s a freakishly effective shooter.

  12. Joe Sixpack Says:

    Please take a closer look at 37 people killed in
    Tasmania, Australia by a professional marksman with semi auto rifle. All firearms specialists say that he was among 1% of top world marksman to kill that many peolple with head and neck shots from the HIP. Of course the event was blamed on some weird ex hippie loner who happened to own semi auto rifle. All professional detective work has indicated that only Israeli marksman were using the same kind of rifles and bullets. Enough said. If you do not believe please read about it on http://www.reclaimaustralia.net

  13. tmb Says:

    I fully agree with FVK. I was in the army at 18 and have been a prosecutor and into self defense etc. all my life. No amateur pulls off what this guy did – – he was a professionally trained assassin somewhere . . . unless you fire an automatic hand gun often at the target range and are very familiar with firing it the tendency is for a jam to happen when multiple rounds are shot by an amateur (check it out for yourself – – one of the reason revolvers are generally better for self defense for people who do not go to the range on a regular basis with their firearm is they will get at least those rounds off without a jam while an automatic will often jam after the second round when it has not been broken in by firing many rounds etc). This whole thing timing wise etc. is very, very suspicious – – we are being controlled by a small group of psychopaths at the top, The Order etc. and we know that the “intelligence” agencies, following the Nazis with MKULTRA, have been working on this type of manchurian candidate programming for years. The fact that the school was “warned” etc. is a great cover . . . Truly a great tragedy for these families as with the poor families being murdered in Iraq and across the world by conspiring psychopaths . . .

  14. Doug Mitchell Says:

    Exactly. Proficient target shooting comes only from regular practice, as with every other “sport”, speaking from some paid experience.

    And I’ll second the “excellent research” for the fine background on sis and her employ.

  15. skateari Says:

    I knew it was to good of news, at too good of a time; a perfect distraction for the US government. But i´m a bit confused as to what to take from this. Was he a troubled kid, knowing to much (from family ties) driven to the act? Or was this a government operation, in order to change the news headlines for the better?? Not to sure what to take of this.

  16. p Says:

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/story.....038;page=2

    Some news accounts have suggested that Cho had a history of antidepressant use, but senior federal officials tell ABC News that they can find no record of such medication in the government’s files. This does not completely rule out prescription drug use, including samples from a physician, drugs obtained through illegal Internet sources, or a gap in the federal database, but the sources say theirs is a reasonably complete search.

  17. Jan Says:

    Did his parents come from a military/intelligence background?

  18. Rob Says:

    I just love it how these folks manage to get killed before anyone can get any information. I just can’t swallow the whole lone gunman thing again. Not with SWAT cops crawling all over the place for three days before the incident. Don’t forget that we are now in the AIPAC Rosen and Wiessman trials in addition to Roves newly emerging connections to the AGs firings along with Gonzales, Iraq and Cheney’s latest implosions. I remembered watching Moore’s Bowling for Columbine and feeling revulsion for Charleton Heston and his gun stance. Now I feel revulsion for Moore (and his film mentor Mr. Ellis, you know the Bush cousin). I have come to believe that we are being had. I can’t imagine how the whole planet isn’t paranoid when you start looking at the connections between these tragedy’s and how deeply they intersect the interests of the global elites.

  19. Tim Fuller Says:

    You can play six degrees of separation a lot of different ways. I doubt your analysis but appreciate the effort that went into it. What’s sad is that given what else has been going on with this admin, nothing surprises me anymore.

    Enjoy.

  20. Peregrino Says:

    Wow, what a compendium! I go to this site first to get the real news. The samples from the killer’s writings make me smile: right out of the dialog of virtually any action movie out today. This indicated that something was wrong with the guy? Maybe we’d better lock Quentin Tarantino up immediately! I agree with the gun instructor. The only way even an experienced pistol shooter could have dropped that many people would have been at point blank range with people just standing there like sheep. Did the guy just go up and down the rows in the classroom while the people waited for permission to run? Wasn’t there at least one macho guy around to grab the guy from behind? Having said all this, the chances for a snap case to be related to an employee of a sinister government contractor is good in this day and age, especially in Virginia where half the people work for the U. S. government, and half the government is involved in sinister empire-building meglomania, and a healthy percentage of the population of former miners, factory workers, small farmers, and oppressed minorities lives in quiet desperation, churning out a constant supply of snap cases. McNeil Technologies didn’t have to set anything up; all it had to do was wait.

  21. WetWork Says:

    False flag distraction event- no question. Only question is, what are they tryin to bury?

    I betcha the corpgov sponsored legislation is already written and ready to sign… just checked- yep sure enough, lots’o bills waiting in the wings..

    Why did he have the word “Ismaels Axe” scrawled on his arm (Islamic Battle cRY)

    How did he manage to fedex his unibobmber manifestO/wackjob scrapbook off to NBC in between first two murders and subsequent rampage?

    What video games did he like to play?

  22. Tito Says:

    Joe Sixpack, are you poking fun at us? I checked out that link of yours and..well. Yikes.

  23. maxx Says:

    Very interesting…..would be cool to get this to Rosie,I bet she’d also find it interesting,and could blab it out to a much bigger audience than I could.

    Gr8 stuff…thanxx

  24. Tito Says:

    Ok, here’s my real question. Was this a “Terrorist Attack”?
    Whether he was some kind of sick kid or government agent, does this count? How much ideology has to be behind an event to push it from randomn violence to terrorism?

  25. bookman Says:

    not ready to come to any conclusions, but its quite politically convenient and the accuracy seems quite improbable.

    also, you guys see the video yet? does it mean anything to any of you? (besides making his delusional state very clear)

    also, I saw on msnbc that he played counterstrike a lot…. HEY! I play counterstrike a lot. Watch out for me, i guess.

    FVK & tito2, you’re saying my ~100,000 rounds/year with a desert eagle in counterstrike doesnt make me a good shot in real life?!?!?!?!… damn, i thought i was training for battle

  26. George Kenney Says:

    Cell phone footage where you can hear the shots.

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f59_1176748483

  27. bikerangie Says:

    Here’s what I didn’t like when I first heard about this: Students witnessing their peers being shot, then hearing long pauses, then the sounds of reloading. Meanwhile, doing nothing.
    Where were their balls? When the guy’s reloading, take him out at the knees, or wherever. I would have done it. Then again, I’m 37 and have instincts that I suspect kids today do not have.
    :: shrug ::

  28. Fiona Says:

    Anyone else see the rumors about VT engineering professors involved in 911 truth investigations? Links at my blog.

  29. JJR Says:

    Bikerangie, I wondered the exact same thing! My guess is he used the Glock 9mm for the main carnage, and the .22 LR as a back up to fend anyone off while he was re-loading the Glock–and he evidently had several pre-loaded spare magazines he was lugging with him in that vest…so you’re talking only seconds to reload, and if he has himself covered with the .22 LR while he’s doing that…still, though deadly, I’d rather face down a loaded .22 LR pistol than a loaded Glock 9mm. He also wasted a lot of ammo blasting away at a door that students had barred, almost robotically–terminator style.

    I can’t believe they’d sit and let him fully reload an EMPTY magazine. Even done quickly that takes awhile…I dunno, do they make “speedloaders” for Glocks? My CZ has one, but I’ve never fiddled with it.

    In any case I think FVK hit it right on, and I’m glad to hear an expert weigh in on this, as I’m a rank amateur shooter, and I also know exactly what you mean about jamming semiautos that haven’t been broken in, because that’s happened to me at the range! Something doesn’t smell right–and what’s with the filed off serial numbers?

    This has PSY-OP written all over it, to me.

  30. Hera Says:

    Conspiracy theorists here don’t convince me that this was anything more than a disaffected kid and a multiple systemic failure — 1) of a collegiate / university system to act in loco parentis; 2) that meant that significant data of the murderer’s behavior was not aggregated and disseminated so that it a) prevented Cho’s purchase of guns; b) collected and systematically documented and aggregated the evidence of his aberrant behavior so that it could be used by university staff, mental health professionals and law enforcement personnel to protech others.

    The engine behind this tragedy here is not some bizarre conspiracy, but the erroneous assumption that children aged 18 and in college should be treated as adults. This continues not to be true, and should not be allowed. Age 21 or 25 should be the new majority. And threatening or bizarre behavior — to self or others — should be enough to get someone sent home, permanently.

    One wonders where are the parents in this? What a tragedy, but still, where were they and are they? Their son’s stalking episodes and stint in a mental hospital were signs. How were they dealt with?

    This is not a conspiracy. It is the outcome of untreated mental illness. We need to consider how to governmentally and societally reconfigure personal liberties (thanks, ACLU) to allow for societal concerns of safety and the common good to be addressed. The pendulum has swung too far in favor of personal liberty. Society needs boundaries and rules to survive. Ask any big city dweller about the deinstitutionalization of the insane. We who live in big cities impose limits on our own liberty to avoid possible altercations with the insane who live on our streets. We know who they are, we know where they live, we know how to avoid them — we hope — because our governments and our police are powerless to protect us from them, until they actually hurt us, just like Cho.

  31. gk Says:

    Hera, you may find this site more suitable for your intellect.

    http://www.foxnews.com/

  32. souls Says:

    wow, some hours gone and discussion exploded :).

    I am still wondering a little bit as to the first news I heard on CNN on this incident. It was said that a man had been arrested after the shooting in building 1. Then some more people were killed and everyone was confused if this is a second person or still the same one or what. This story was dropped at some point in time and substituted with the crime scene at building 1 having been secured. Havent heard any statement of the obviously false arrestment since then.
    I still somewhat refuse to buy this as some false flag ops, but I am wondering: who would announce news that someone had been captured in what appeared to be already a serious crimescene with two people dead, if such an arresting never happened? The only explanation is that he might have been expected to be arrested and just wasnt. And somehow the information flow might not have been too good on that. Jumping in partly with d here I guess …

  33. Cutkomp Says:

    The story reeks. We need to question what the authorities and media are cramming down throats. They create the problems. They create the solutions. They create the box in which you are expected to find the solutions.

    http://cutkomp.blogspot.com/20.....about.html

  34. rabair Says:

    Hera, don’t waste you’re time. I’m reading this for entertainment, but these people are nuts.

    Look, I don’t understand how he killed so many people either… But give me a break.

    I suspect these people haven’t really followed all the developments. Conspiracy theorists (especially the ones commenting here) stick to their conspiracy sites, and it’s known that they’ll see conspiracy theories in anything and are more likely to believe any conspiracy theory they’re told about.

    They probably didn’t watch his high school classmates talk about how he was exactly the way his college classmates describe him. They probably don’t know that he was recommended for hospitalization because he was a threat to himself and others a year and a half ago, and someone screwed up and didn’t make it mandatory. The cops have been called and talked to him over his stalking. One professor stationed security to watch him because he made her so nervous. etc. etc. etc.

    Let me guess Alex Jonesians, this was all as the programming was being done. At night he climbed to the roof of his dorm and the black helicopters picked him up and took him to Gitmo to train him and program him.

    Or wait, maybe his sister tipped off the Illuminati about the type of kid he was, so they had the perfect person they’d been looking for.

    Or maybe his parents conceived him for this, and it’s all been in the works for decades.

    NO WAIT WAIT WAIT!!! I bet he’s a distant cousin of President Bush!!!

    In fact, I’m going to make that claim. Didn’t you guys hear about that trip Bush made decades ago to Korea? Yeah, I always heard he impregnated a woman there. Fast forward, it’s this kid’s grandmother! At least as much as Ben Chertoff is Michael Chertoff’s cousin.

    You douche bags.

  35. tg Says:

    Hera,
    How did you decide it was not a conspiracy so quickly?

  36. V Says:

    Well, this is what happens when the U.S. Government says it’s illegal to physically discipline your kids. You can’t even say it or else your kids call the cops on you. Well dear U.S. lawmaker let’s rethink about “who” invented those laws, investigate their background and motive for suggesting those laws. I don’t mean to be right but if I knew that my parents will “BEAT” the hell out of me for doing such stupidity, I would would just chew my tongue, end of story. Like my grand pa used to say “beat those kids or they beat you and the world when they become older”

    V

  37. sb Says:

    Kevin I think you ought to put a click thru on Cryptogon for the highest quality cod liver oil you can find. Would probably do us all some good, too late for that Cho guy though…

  38. fallout11 Says:

    Criminals do not obey laws. Laws do not prevent crime by criminals. Laws only enforce behavior in those who are inclined to obey the law in the first place. Criminals, who are not inclined to respect rules, are not deterred by what a rule or law demands of them.

    This is plain common sense. Laws are for lawful people. They are the only group that laws can have any deterrence over.

    Behavioral modification cannot come from legislation. This is a proven dismal failure. Societal standards must come from society itself. Using the law as a whipping post to (allegedly) enforce lawful behavior against those that do not feel constrained by lawful behavior simply doesn’t work.

    Besides, I can easily find a number of “broken laws” that were violated by this particular case – and every other case. More laws aren’t what is needed, since they are useless anyway and only serve as a measuring stick for punishment for criminals that have broken the law. Think this through. This means they are of NO USE until after the crime has been committed. So they do not prevent crime by criminals, they only serve to punish criminals after they have committed the crime.
    More laws, as found in Canada, England, Australia and other countries where similar crimes have occurred, will not stop crimes like this. And it won’t stop it in America.

    If anything, simply having more “rules” merely encourages more rule breaking. Read more here.
    “Everyone’s a Criminal”
    http://www.whiskeyandgunpowder.....50615.html
    “Eye, Robot”
    http://www.whiskeyandgunpowder.....70214.html
    “You, Robot”
    http://www.whiskeyandgunpowder.....70227.html

    It isn’t more rules and control we need, but less. The onerous burden of laws we labor under is unbelievable. This is a sign of decaying society – the attempt to legislate everything under the sun. A truly free society would have very few laws. Laws don’t protect citizens. In reality, citizens protect citizens (including yourself).
    It isn’t laws that make a free society, but the relative absence of laws. Modern society believes it’s legislators are supposed to create more laws, which are to be upheld by the courts, and enforced by the police, but this does nothing at all for personal freedoms. In fact, it’s a very dangerous model to build a society upon. This is why over two million Americans are in prison right now. I just read where some people have been held for 35 years in solitary confinement for crimes they didn’t do. In America.
    Legislators believe it is their duty to enact more and more laws, always looking for something to legislate, something to regulate, something to tax and even someplace to spend. It never even occurs to them to stop all of this activity and let the people alone, that they can quite effectively govern themselves and tend to their own affairs without high level interference.

    The end result is what we have today. An overbearing burden of laws that number in the hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions. Nobody really knows, the number is that large and that hard to comprehend.

    Another sign of a free society would be a very small, limited government. Not one of the advanced, developed nations on Earth (First World nations) has such a government and yet they declare themselves to be “free societies”. Free from what, exactly? The reality is, it’s pay as you go and obey or else. They call such governments “tax and spend” for a reason. Their upheld by a huge preponderance of laws that only serve to maintain a grossly bloated government, huge military-industrial complexes, and wanton deficit spending. There are many other signs of truly restrictive societies, but I won’t bore everyone with details.
    I have long believed that freedom will never be found in modern society, because it is contradictory to the very fabric of that society. Freedom is what the Founding Fathers of the US tried to create. Unfortunately, the anti-Federalists lost that battle.
    Governments like what we have today simply aren’t needed. They are an archaic throwback to colonial expansion and domination.

    But just wait – our legislatures will promise to “rescue us” once again from these type of terrible crimes. That these always prove to be outright lies based on fabrications will elude them still.

    Paul Craig Roberts covers this well, here:
    http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts04172007.html

  39. d Says:

    Hey V,

    It’s quite possible, and even *more* effective to not use physical violence against your children. Physical violence against children is the very thing that makes children more willing to drink the Kool-Aid. Read Alfie Kohn to get you started on ways to teach your children responsibility, respect, and self-actualization without manipulating them into being the little robots our society expects of them. I love how my sweet little girls stand up for themselves when told to drink.

  40. Doug Says:

    20APRIL1889: Hitler’s Birthday
    19APRIL1992: The ATF/FBI attempted raid on Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge
    19APRIL1993: The Branch Davidians at Waco burned by ATF/FBI
    19APRIL1995: OKC Bombing
    20APRIL1999: Columbine Massacre
    16APRIL2007: Virginia Tech Massacre

    Cho mentioned Klebold and Harris in his rants.

    Excellent background research on the sister.

    Check six.

  41. Francis S Says:

    Yeah d, I was about to say the same thing. In fact, regardless of the implications it has for conspiracy theories, it does sound like Cho was abused.

    You really think physical violence is going to work to treat deep-seated, existential depression? (You don’t sound like a “conspiracy theorist” (whatever that is) so I’ll assume you accept the consensus diagnosis of mental illness.) I myself was extremely depressed during my teen years, though I dunno how I compare to Cho. If I had had someone beating me, it would have made my behavior worse, not better. My dad hit me once, and not in a very extreme way, and I took it out on him by leaving and moving in with my mom. If I had not had that outlet, and had been consistently physically (and possibly sexually, as it seems in Cho’s case) abused, I can’t say what I would have done, but it would probably have been retaliatory.

    Incidentally, where were the parents when he was out training with his guns and playing counterstrike 20 hours a day? Parents that hit are the kind to think hitting solves everything, and never bother to do any actual parenting.

    (BTW I played counterstrike many hours a day and still do. My parents weren’t around either, I guess the difference was in my demeanor and the fact that I was NOT hit or abused. I went to a high-end high school full of bright kids where there was almost no bullying. And also that it’s pretty hard to get guns in NYC unless you hang out with a really rough crowd.)

    Still a bit more to say (sorry) this time on the conspiracy angle. I think it’s worth looking at that the conspiracy theory culture has caught on in a sort of mainstream movement. Whenever any movement grows it attracts fanatics and partisans. Cho may have been one such person. Maybe he was never actually abused, but was simply fascinated by the stories he’d heard. Maybe the dark politics he followed colored his view of the world with a black marker, until it looked like a truly vile place, unworthy of mercy or redemption.

    …Then again, 2/3 shots were kills? Its pretty amazing even when 2/3 shots are HITS!

  42. Andrew Says:

    Peregrino: “Having said all this, the chances for a snap case to be related to an employee of a sinister government contractor is good in this day and age, especially in Virginia where half the people work for the U. S. government”

    As a Virginia resident, I can assure that nothing close to half the population works for the US government.

  43. Real History Lisa Says:

    I couldn’t help but wonder if the timing of this wasn’t to distract from Kucinich’s plans, crafted over the weekend and to have been launched this week, to indroduce articles of impeachment against Cheney.

    I had the same suspicions re mind control as well after my own extensive reading on the subject. See my post re this at http://realhistoryarchives.blo.....heney.html.

  44. Francis S Says:

    A screenshot of Cho’s “manifesto”:

    http://www.democraticundergrou.....215;694618

    I’ll wait and see if better copies come out (probably.) If this is a psy-op, it helps to have a message to go with it.

  45. Francis S Says:

    ah one more post, sorry… some video is up at http://liveleak.com/

    Warning, there is a lot of graphic stuff on that site. Nothing that plays by itself of anything, but…

  46. tmb Says:

    Hey Rabair,

    It’s a documented fact that the CIA worked for decades, using Nazi scientists, test results, and methods (MKULTRA,OPERATION PAPERCLIP etc. – – this a fact, the CIA admitted it at the Church hearings although the CIA Director stated he burned most all of the records to keep the public from knowing the full truth – – some democratic country???)looking for ways to create Manchurian Candidate programmed killers and as ways to control the population.

    The DEA Agent author of Powderburns, documenting CIA involvement in drug importation to USA, recorded how many of these agents had a strong belief that the people of the US were too “free” and something needed to be done about it . . . There has been lots of research proving that the CIA operated psychological operations in San Quentin among other places and people like Cinque DeFreeze were subjects of CIA mind control expert Colston Westbrook (http://www.nypress.com/17/50/n.....ssner2.cfm) – – he later “escaped” and was identified as head of the SLA in their “terrorism”, Patty Hearst abduction, etc. which then was used to discredit and smear the “left” in the USA . . . there is strong evidence Charles Manson came out of the same type program, and that the Jonestown massacre was not as portrayed in the media http://www.crimelibrary.com/no.....ons_5.html . . . quite often there is a military connection also with these types of killins and interaction with Westbrook types (the Columbine incident, with records just sealed for 20 years by the judge also has many questions not answered http://www.konformist.com/1999/colorado.htm . . .

    All you need to do is some research and stop believing what you are fed in the controlled media that exists in the USA and most countries and then you will stop posting comments such as you have made here . . . to say questions should not be asked in these cases given the history we do know about (and God knows what has been fully suppressed?)is the result of a programmed unquestioning dull mind and none of us can afford that anymore . . . head to “FOX NEWS” for your “entertainment” – – you’re their target audience.

  47. brendan Says:

    ok, in my opinion you guys are going overboard with this false flag stuff… just because two things happen at the same time (Iraq going down the tubes + blacksburg) does not mean that they bear a causal relation to each other.

    about Cho’s marksmanship: i don’t think it would be at all difficult to do what he did — 15 or 20 seated, defenseless kids in a room at close range? that’s called fish in a barrel. the fact that he had two handguns meant no one could cross the moat between the first row of chairs and the front of the classroom, b/c he was essentially covering himself with a second gun at all times.

    i know this will inspire a lot of eye rolling at my supposed naivete, but i think that the really valuable insights that show up on this site just get diluted by this type of hocus pocus.

  48. CJ Says:

    Thanks for fleshing out exactly what I suspected about this diversion. People who think us “conspiracy wackos” are wrong, should ask more questions and read more disstenting opinions. Just like the WTC, I wonder who got conveniently taken out during the death drills, I never hear anything about that but I bet there’s a couple someones in both cases. Plus, isn’t VT sort of a war/death/carnage type college anyway? So why the big surprise?

  49. Tito Says:

    I do think Hera and Rabair present an excellant voice though. Sometimes there are coincidences and randomn tradegies. Sometimes a “cigar” is in fact just a “cigar”. Its just that there are so many “cigars” these days.

  50. scottc Says:

    surely you jest. there’s just no way any government, especially the us, would ever stoop to such horrific extremes. i mean, mind control? get real. we don’t know of any historical examples of this, and had there been, we would have demanded an end to such monstrousness. those involved would have been hanged or imprisoned for life. we’re good people.

    we all know that history is a series of accidents. people don’t actually get together to plan and carry out their plans against the wishes of the populace. politicians and corporoticians are basically good folks. a few bad apples, but aren’t there always a few in any group?

    it’s about time we got together as a people and put an end to the violence propagating bile of the imus’s and tarantino’s of the world. obama was right. we need to open our eyes to the linguistic and multi-media violence of people like imus and tarantino and how it relates to the physical carnage of these mass murders and other violent endeavors.

    we need to take action to stop folks from beating the drums of violent world views and philosophies. these “intellectuals” and “artists” are just as much to blame as their goon terrorists who actually carry out the bloodbaths. the sooner everyone figures this out, the sooner our world will become safe and sane.

    s

  51. timinsf Says:

    looks like the company that funds mcneil also funds dyncorp. just google dyncorp to see how nice they are.

  52. George Kenney Says:

    IT PROVIDED AN EXCUSE NOT TO THINK…

    “What no one seemed to notice. . . was the ever widening gap. . .between the government and the people. . . And it became always wider. . . the whole process of its coming into being, was above all diverting, it provided an excuse not to think for people who did not want to think anyway . . . (it) gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about . . .and kept us so busy with continuous changes and ‘crises’ and so fascinated . . . by the machinations of the ‘national enemies,’ without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us. . .

    From Milton Mayer, They Thought They Were Free, The Germans, 1938-45 (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1955)

    http://www.informationclearing.....e11845.htm

    Here are some reassuring prayers for the ‘Coincidence-theorists’ out there:

    JFK was killed by a lone deranged killer.
    RFK was killed by a lone deranged killer.
    Virginia Tech students killed by a deranged killer.
    Archduke Franz Ferdinand was killed by a lone deranged killer.
    Abraham Lincoln was killed by a lone deranged killer.
    The government will protect you.
    You are safe.
    Oil will never run out.
    Our environment will last forever.
    Go shopping.

  53. Real History Lisa Says:

    TMB – it’s spelled Faux News. ;D

  54. nicmarlo Says:

    I understand that Savage said today on his show that the parents spend 10 years in Saudi Arabia.

    Of course, that’s merely another “coincidence.”

  55. Praylu Says:

    My first thoughts and current for that matter are that of a modern day MK-ULTRA as every point I land upon suggests as much. I’m sure others here are familiar with Sirhan Sirhan. Well, after he committed ‘murder’ they found a notebook in the place he was reportingly previously staying at before the event in question. Inside this notebook they found he jotted the words “”Die Die RFK must die” repeatedly. Guess what they ‘found’ in one of Cho Seung-hui’s school papers? Exact same thing only it was the name Dick instead of RFK.

    According to media outlets Cho Seung-hui was on ‘anti-depressants’ which implies he must have also been seeing a psychologist of some sort on campus. I’m lead to believe his mind was tampered, conditioned, manipulated, (however you want to say it) since sometime in 2005 leading up to the shooting.

    The purposes for these actions are endless so I’ll mention a few and then you can all drawn your own conclusions. Yesterday morning the first thing I heard on the radio was that ‘out of control’ students in the area of Wisconsin would now be forced to wear plastic handcuffs. I’m sure their repeated mention of them being plastic will ease the minds of parents hey? Also on CNN I kept hearing reporters mention that privacy laws should be revised because of Cho Seung-hui’s ‘behavior’ before the shooting. As I said though, the purposes are endless.

  56. OVCP Says:

    There’s a discrepancy between most of the reports of Cho wearing a “boy scout outfit” and this one:

    http://www.iol.co.za/index.php.....510C653345
    “He hid his face behind a mask and had his brown-coloured cap lowered to his eyes. He wore glasses and something like a black ammo jacket,” Park said, according to the website of JoongAng Ilbo newspaper.

    So which is it?… a “boy scout outfit” or a guy wearing a mask, cap, glasses. No one else mentions Cho wearing a mask. This suggests a second shooter who “finished the job” which explains how so many got killed in such a short amount of time. In the confusion, I doubt if details like a mask will be noted by most people.

    So if this is the case, then Cho first shows up, fires off rounds at the 2 classrooms, and the other shooter ( the real pro dressed like Cho) finishes off Cho and the rest. The second shooter then exchanges his filed off number guns for Cho’s, and leaves out the back in a predetermined route.

  57. fallout11 Says:

    According to Faux News, the first shooter was arrested after the initial incident:
    http://www.myfoxboston.com/myf.....geId=3.3.1

    He was photographed being arrested by students still on campus at the time:
    http://www.whatreallyhappened......tedman.jpg
    http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1260892,00.html

    Regardless of why it happened the lesson of this tragedy is simple:

    The government cannot or will not protect you.
    More rules, laws, restrictions, and bans cannot protect you.
    Only YOU can protect you.

    Cowardly cops with sub-machine guns and body armor hid behind trees as ‘madman’ went on killing spree
    http://www.prisonplanet.com/ar.....rotect.htm

  58. dongtastic Says:

    someone mentioned that it was odd that he stopped at 32 and killed himself having plenty of ammo to take out more. the truth of the matter is, 33 is the “official” death toll, but 33 dead immediately struck me as being suspect, as this is typical code for “we done it” (our elitist masters, that is). notice when you watch any major event on the tele how official numbers always seem to tie in the number 11 or a factor thereof. 9/11. 7/7 bombings in London. 3/11 boming in madrid. Cho used a 9mm and a .22. The put the school on lockdown at 9:22 a.m. It goes on and on.

  59. links for 2007-04-20 at Super Dee Duper Says:

    [...] cryptogon.com » Archives » Virginia Tech Shooting: I’ve Already Seen Enough Some people find conspiracies in everything. I definitely used to be one of those people. To me, the only suspicious thing about this is how Cho was so accurate. An ER doc said all the victims they saw were shot at least 3 times. Kevin brings up some (tags: conspiracy virginia vt_shootings) [...]

  60. Big Daddy Malcontent Says:

    Man, Veritas is a clearinghouse of evil corporations. Raytheon, DynCorp…Wasn’t DynCorp involved in a prostitution ring in Bosnia?

  61. Anonymous Says:

    I cant read all the coments here, as there are now so many, but let me just say, this attack has means and motive for the US Government. Control the news in a time of possible crisis? Gun Control? School lockdowns? The US government likes creating nice, publicity stunts, to take away our freedom. I will bet that its going to be a whole lot harder to buy guns after this. I bet a lot of schools are going to change. I bet many Americans completely forgot whats going on around them, just this bullshit about the school shooting.

  62. Delete The Commands: The Connections You're Supposed to Make « Waking the Midnight Sun Says:

    [...] other thoughts worth considering, go here and here.  Posted by cadeveo Filed in hypnosis, conspiracy poetics, 9/11, everyday life, [...]

  63. Before it Disappears...Or Gets Turned to Salt « Waking the Midnight Sun Says:

    [...] 21st, 2007 Found this link in the ongoing conversation at cryptogon re: Virginia [...]

  64. Ata Says:

    I too instantly thought conspiracy when the information on the events at VT started coming out. I am surprised that the average person is not questioning what is going on here. Do they not find it strange that he killed two people then 30 more two hours later? It is bull that the school could not warn everybody on campus and lockdown the school. Geez, what sort of people do we have working for our law enforcement! Even if they felt the initial killings were domestic and the killer left, I’m sure the people on campus would have appreciated that information.

    I think part of the reason do not question is that we as a society, are brainwashed by violent movies and watching people kill others that it is almost ‘normal’ to us. Have you guys seen the previews for a new movie coming out? I do not know the name, but in the preview commercial it is about some sort of fight club with ten people and nine will die, and it tells us ‘that we get to watch’. I thought ‘Wow, how lucky that we getto watch people kill each other’.

  65. A Strange Shooting: Numbers and Shadows « Waking the Midnight Sun Says:

    [...] already mentioned elsewhere, the reported shooter, Cho Seung-Hui, has a sister who works for a corporation connected to [...]

  66. Yo Says:

    Look at the package that Cho allegedly sent:

    A. Ismeal
    88 Revol Dr

    There is no such address. You check that for yourself. 88 is a common code white supremacists use to denote their beliefs as 8 is the 8th letter of the alphabet… “H”

    88 = Heil Hitler

    Revol is Lover spelled backwards

    Note the timing of the event as Hitler’s birthday is 4/20.

    The message: “It was from a ‘Hitler Lover'”

    And no, Cho was not the “Hitler lover”, he was the patsy to be used as the ‘lone nut’ All Cho did was show up and pull the trigger in 2 classrooms and left and met the other guy who finished Cho off. Then the other guy goes back in dressed similarly and finished the operation. No one will be the wiser because little details will be missed at the height of their terror.

    If the media is free to speculate before the police report has been put out, then so am I.

  67. cryptogon.com » Archives » CHO ATTENDED SAME HIGHSCHOOL AS ANOTHER “LONE NUT” SHOOTER Says:

    [...] Update 3 on the main post. Posted in Announcements | Top Of [...]

  68. starviego Says:

    Yo,

    I noticed that return address too; I thought it might also refer to ‘Heinrich Himmler.” The ‘revol’ I thought meant ‘revolution.’

    It should be noted that some have speculated that Erfurt(4-26-02) school shooter Robert Steinhauser, 19, chose that date because it was also the birthday of Rudolph Hess

    Cho only shot in 2 classes? I thought there were casualties in 4 classrooms.

  69. from hades / links for 2007-04-22 Says:

    [...] Virginia Tech Shooting: I’ve Already Seen Enough I thought that I should designate a single post to all of the Virginia Tech related analysis, to parse out some of the key signals from the noise. Within 30 minutes of actually sitting down to read about the incident, I had already seen enough. (tags: virginia amok) [...]

  70. Yo Says:

    starviego,
    That’s the problem. Witnesses place Cho in 2 classrooms while there casualties everywhere. Blood was in the hallway I believe. I do hope the police releases ALL of their data to the public showing where the bodies are and which guns the bullets came from. Did he use just the 9mm or did he use the .22 as well is not clear at this point.

  71. Praylu Says:

    Another interesting question:

    Why would he file the numbers off the guns, but keep the receipt in his pocket during the shooting??

    It takes serious intention, and IMHO if your intent enough to ground off the serials, your smart and intuitive enough to get rid of the paperwork. Another thing that vexes me is that he bought the guns on his credit card. He would have to know that the cops would put two and two together. Again, what is the purpose of grounding off the serials? Shady to say the least.

  72. starviego Says:

    Another VTech Student gets Whacked

    http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/114236
    VIRGINIA BEACH — A Virginia Tech freshman who recently had returned to Chesapeake died Friday despite the efforts of people who pulled him from a burning car.
    Margie Long, a police spokeswoman, identified the victim as Jeff Nielsen Santo Domingo Soriano of Chesapeake. He was flown to the trauma center at Sentara Norfolk General Hospital but died shortly after 6 p.m., Long said.
    The single-vehicle wreck occurred about 2:30 p.m. in the 6000 block of Providence Road. Soriano was driving westbound toward Indian River Road when his vehicle flipped and rolled several times and struck a tree, Long said. Rob Waring heard the crash from inside the real estate office he manages. He found Soriano unconscious inside the vehicle.
    Others had stopped to help. Together, they tried to pull open the driver-side door. “The door wouldn’t open, and the car was starting to burn,” Waring said. “We got the passenger door open after a minute, but the flames were starting to get pretty obnoxious,” Waring said. “We got a hold on the kid’s wrist and hauled him out and across the street.” Seconds later, “the car really took to burning,” he said.
    As police and paramedics arrived, Waring started talking to the driver’s relative. “That’s when I found out he was a Tech undergrad who had just gotten home, so that sort of brought this terrible week into focus for me,” said Waring, who attended Tech in the 1970s.

    [Comment: It wouldn't surpirse me if this kid was an eyewitness who saw stuff he shouldn't have and was talking about it. A couple of months after Columbine a student there died in a car crash. That student was possibly a witness to casualties in that school's cafeteria, when officially there were no casualties there.]

  73. Yo Says:

    Yeah, the serial numbers filed off is weird. It’s a lot of work cuz the serial numbers are in 3 places….

    http://www.time.com/time/natio.....948,00.htm

    Gun Shop Owner said:
    “Markell said the agents told him that Cho had filed off the serial number that is stamped into the weapon in three places. Filing serial numbers off guns doesn’t obliterate them, however — they are deeply impressed into the steel and can be raised with an acid bath. But the agents didn’t have to send the guns to the lab to find their origin, because they found the receipt.”

    “The serial number is on the barrel, on the slide and on the bottom of the frame,” Markell said. “That’s quite a bit of work for anybody to do. Why anybody would go to that much trouble, because it had to take a long time, and then keep the receipt in his pocket?”

  74. Yo Says:

    Also, I think this event is similar to the OJ Simpson case (see “Blood Oath” by Carl Jaspers) where it functions as a psy-op to pit Asians against upper middle class whites as the OJ case was used to pit whites against black men. there are many Asians in engineering schools, yet, it happened at one where it was predominatly white. And notice the not only the timing of the event to Hitler’s B-day, but the package was sent to NBC and on Sunday the 4/22 on NBC, James Sun (Korean-American) was one of the final 4 on the finale of the TV hit show The Apprentice.

    The underlying message (assuming a psy-op) is that Asian males are not to be trusted and they are competeing for the same spots and they are loners, shy, foreign, weird…. yet quite cunning.

    This comes at a time when Asian men are starting to gain some positive models in the media: James Sun, Sul Kwon (Survivor), Yao Ming, etc…

    Just like OJ was a well respected black man who married a white woman. ther underlyuing message was that you can’t trust the black man cuz the hypersexualized black male is there to take your white woman away from you.

    In both cases, the race card and the stereotypes are played up to the fullest to get people against each other and destabilize the U.S. so u;ltimately, there is civil unrest which gives the radical elements reason to suspend the Constitution & step in and restore order…. ie a bloodless coup.

    Unlike the OJ case, the Cho case includes a mind control element.

    South Korea has long standing ties to the U.S. intelligence establishment and its no coincidence that the shooter is S. Korean. The Unification Church run by Sun-Young Moon has long been suspected of being a U.S. intelligence front that figures heavily in mind control. Cho was born and raised in S. Korea and may have had contact with these mind control elements who’ve programmed him right from the start as they like to begin programming them before the age of 5.

  75. Yo Says:

    Here’s a witness who claims he was told that Cho shot himself in the BACK of his head. Do people normally off themselves by shooting themselves in teh back of their head?

    http://www.news.com.au/heralds.....61,00.html
    When police reached the second floor, the firing had stopped and Cho was lying dead in a classroom.

    “He opened fire to the back of his head and blew up the front part of his head, which has made it difficult to identify him,” Mr Chen said

  76. liyum Says:

    There was a post much earlier in the comments alluding to the first shooting being the “business” and the second shooting the “cover”… But there has been little comment on this since; To me this would be the most direct reason for a psy-ops style operation such as this. Has anyone researched the first two victims and a possible motive for their death?

  77. Yo Says:

    liyum, The first shooting would reinforce the stereotype of the Asian male as the loner, shy geek who was unsuccessful with women. So much so, he shot her and her “boyfriend”.

    The second shooting ties in to the theme set forth in the first shooting….. this Asian guy is a geeky loner who is not successful with women and because of being spurned by that female, it was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Though he killed his spurned love interest; it was not enough, so he turned his rage to all those others who had wronged him in the past.

    That is, of course, what you are supposed to believe. In a psy-op, its designed to change public opinion by working up the emotions of a large amount of people. Most people will not think critically about the facts & details surrounding the case. Most people will just think: Asian killed many white students, bans guns, Asians suspect from now on. A psy-op plays upon the simplicity of most people’s mindset.

    You destabilize the U.S. the same way you destabilize a 3rd world country. You pit one group against another to ultimately create civil unrest. That gives the government a reason to overturn the Constitution & then step in and use either their military or an outsourced military firm like Blackwater USA (25,000 strong now, “Blackwater”, by Jeremy Scahill) to enforce order.

  78. d Says:

    Yo,

    The first victim was a girl he didn’t know and the guy shot was the RA who went to see what was happening.

    I like the “theme” that you’re suggesting. It particularly fits in well with the racial unrest issues, such as Imus, that have been hitting the news suddenly.

    Still, regardless of any sub-modalities, why the TWO shooting events when the first event smells like an assassination? Even if you’re right, it’s a loose thread that deserves attention.

  79. bill Says:

    FVK is well informed….
    The press said last night that Cho bought one box of ammunition and went to a practice range a month ago to train for this massacre.
    When I shoot at a range, one box of bullets is barely a warm up! He tripled tapped most victims
    and changed clips in 1 or 2 seconds. He shot over 50 people and killed 32. That’s a 64% fatality rate with handguns (including a 22. cal Walther)
    pretty friggin amazing for a college nerd newbie shooter.
    By the way..anyone been to the post office recently (any damned post office!!) they all have cameras everywhere. So where are the pictures of Cho mailing his package to NBC Nightly news.
    and that handwriting on the mailing label looks like it was written be the same guy who addressed the Anthrax labels to Daschle and others.

    And didn’t they say he shot himself twice when he was suiciding himself…

  80. Zippy Says:

    What would be the motive? I’m going to enter the dark waters here and speculate. Alberto Gonzales was scheduled to testify in front of a Congressional committee on Monday, the day of the shooting. I’m going to guess that the Chairman of the committee received a Sunday night phone call, and heard, in good mafia lingo, “Go easy on Gonzales, or you’ll end up like Monday’s main headline.” The chairman cancelled the hearing for that day after the shooting. The excuse he gave was weak. My guess is that he met with the entire committee and spelled out the threat. If Gonzales stays in government and gets off the hook, my speculation will have some merit. Remember the anthrax letters went to three people, two politicians and a photojournalist who published pictures of Bush’s daughters drunk in public. That was a classic mafia hit and served as a warning to anyone else that “You don’t mess with Bush, see?”

  81. fallout11 Says:

    Yes, Cho apparently shot himself….TWICE!
    http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/.....index.html

  82. d Says:

    Hmmm, have there been more recent lone gunman instances? Just in from http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,2061825,00.html

    “But these 32 dead students follow in a cortege of identical tragedies: as soon as we knew this was just another deranged loner, what more was there to think? It happened in Dunblane, Germany, South Korea, Japan, Tasmania and elsewhere, routine school misfit revenges.”

  83. d Says:

    The author of that last piece also mentions something about Public Compassion Fatigue — and it’s effect of numbing us to the daily horrors of death in Iraq. Is that the real flag? To make us more callous to death – so that when our neighbors get gunned down by government-sponsored security squads, we won’t resist?

  84. Mrs. Kang Says:

    V wrote: Says:
    April 19th, 2007 at 8:43 am

    Well, this is what happens when the U.S. Government says it’s illegal to physically discipline your kids. You can’t even say it or else your kids call the cops on you. Well dear U.S. lawmaker let’s rethink about “who” invented those laws, investigate their background and motive for suggesting those laws. I don’t mean to be right but if I knew that my parents will “BEAT” the hell out of me for doing such stupidity, I would would just chew my tongue, end of story. Like my grand pa used to say “beat those kids or they beat you and the world when they become older”

    Koreans DO beat their kids. It is not against their culture to beat their children. It is culturally demanded and many of them “excel” from this strict discipline. I’m not saying these parents did that. Always look for motive, and the sister-link had the most chance to bring in some overwhelmingly suppressive and technologically advanced mind control. A normal human being does not do these things to himself without a lot of aid and abettance. If someone can make you feel worthless enough you will agree to the terms of their “punishments”.

  85. Anonymous Says:

    Now do something about it!!!
    Stop giving yourself reasons. Stop second guessing. This has been going on for decades. Don’t wallow in all the misinformation. You are doing and reacting exactly the way THEY want you to. Do you honestly think THEY make mistakes, after decades of experience and years of researching, planning, and prepping? Could it not be designed exclusively for the 20% of the people like you in the world… keep you guessing and sound all the more ridiculous, when putting stuff like numbers, dates, and months together to make a conspiracy. THEY know you the 20% know… THEY’RE telling you to try and make sense of it. To put the pieces together in ways others will call you crazy. Because it will never make sense, it’s designed that way. You think you have woken like Neo. You’re not even close; Neo had the means to stop THEM. You have meaningless words, which most people find ridiculous. Do something about it!

  86. liyum Says:

    Yo, d, you are both at odds with each other over the first victims… This sounds like disinformation is at work which makes me all the more suspicious.Yo, it is quite possible that your description of an overall destabilization goal is correct, but I’m sure ‘they’ can tack that onto any specific operation they want. I feel the cover-up involved with the first shootings demands further exploration. Yo, d, where are you getting your info on the victims?

  87. d Says:

    I couldn’t find the original New York Times article, but here’s a link to the same article tying Thornhill, the avid shooter, to Hilscher, the girlfriend, at another news site: http://lledit.us.publicus.com/...../FRONTPAGE

    I spent some time looking for the (any) article which described how Cho and the first two victims did not know each other. Equally puzzling is finding articles that DO link Cho and Hilscher even something claiming she spurned his advances or even that he had any interest in her.

  88. d Says:

    I couldn’t find the original New York Times story linking Thornhill, the avid shooter, to Hilscher, the girlfriend, but I did find syndicated at http://lledit.us.publicus.com/...../FRONTPAGE

    I found http://www.news.com.au/dailyte.....21,00.html which states “the gunman was involved in an argument with a girlfriend” but does not specifically name Cho as the arguing boyfriend anywhere in the article. Funny enough, Wikipedia has several references supporting that the media was speculating early on that Cho and Hilscher had a relationship, but later investigation showed there was NO relationship. See:

    Miller, Greg. “Student recalls day when roommate was killed at dorm”, Los Angeles Times . Retrieved on 2007-04-18. http://www.latimes.com/news/na.....;cset=true

    and

    Anderson, Lisa “Cops: Va. Tech gunman was stalker; went to mental facility.” Chicago Tribune. Published April 18, 2007, 10:56 AM CDT. Retrieved April 18, 2007. http://www.chicagotribune.com/.....i-news-hed

    So from my quick investigation, Yo may have gotten his info from the early news stories and I reconciled from the later stories.

    Anyway, this leads me to think that Thornhill may have been the one in the dorm room argument, returned with the gun, killed her and the RA, had an “oh crap” moment and Daddy took care of the rest.

  89. Anonymous Says:

    Here’s another perspective on all of this: A Crooked Broker Society: The Mainstream Media as Pimps and Panderers http://blogs.salon.com/0002007.....html#a1845

  90. Rose Says:

    Hi
    Um, maybe i’m just a little slow, but if this were true what does the government have to gain from this, what are they going to do with 32 dead bodies, will they experiment on them?
    Or if this was some form of mind control, did they let him loose to see how many people he could kill?

  91. Yo Says:

    Rose, its not the “government”; rather, a radical element within the government’s intelligence establishment who have access to the technologies and expertise available. What’s to be gained is shifting publio opinion. Look at public opinion. Read “Blood Oath by Carl Jaspers” and “Legacy of Deception by Steven Singular both books whose authors have interviewed the same killers of Nicole Brown Simpson and read for yourself WHY they did it.

    A psy-op is a spectacular public relations campaigned waged by those who have military training. Think in terms of an “election campaign”.

    And yes., mind control is but ONE tool they used to control Cho. Do take the time ot read the books posted. Its not easy to understand right away & requires a bit of study at first. Know the history and you’ll have the context to understand current events. Read the books.

  92. Rude_Little_Pig Says:

    I suppose the first thing taught at Psyop school is an unforgiving attitude and how to be extraordinarily thin-skinned. Balance those two attitudes with a revengeful nature and throw in a little weapons training and you have yourself a wind-up doll assassin high on some kind of mind controlling and perfectly legal mood altering drug who is being sent out to cause death and mayhem.

    The Illuminati Boys will have a good enough reason to confiscate my guns if they get enough sheeple convinced that guns kill people instead of the real fact that people kill people. Tim McVeigh proved you don’t need guns to kill a lot of folks at one time.

    Disney’s Eisner wants the public to be manipulated emotionally enough to the point where the guns are just tossed in 55-gallon drums free willed to be dumped in the ocean. Don’t these Illuminati boys realize that with each school shooting, us gun toting red-blooded American types hang on to our guns tighter and go out and buy more?

    The school shooting in Pearl, Mississippi in 1997 was stopped by an assistant principal that ran out to his car and got his pistol and held it on the kid that had just killed two girls and wanted to kill more. This kid had knifed his mother to death that morning. I knew her boyfriend, btw. He worked for my mother. The Pearl shooting was a conspiracy among several other students, too.

    Other mass shootings have been stopped by lawful gunowners who stood up with weapon in hand and stood their ground.

    Last year, the VT admin folks banned guns on the campus. Last year, had this Cho fella pulled this stunt, he would have been shot dead and the death toll would not have been so high IMHO.

    Do these facts blend into a conspiracy or just a lot of bad decisions and fear of lawsuits from the PC types?

  93. starviego Says:

    It should be noted that additional shooters were present in the case of the Columbine, Erfurt, Red Lake, Montreal and possibly Springfield, OR(Kip Kinkel) shootings. It is a myth that the juvenile random-rage shooter acts alone. It is always done as a result of a group dynamic.

  94. Robert Says:

    Michael Reagan wrote an excellent article that I would like to comment on. The other problem is the loophole that was written into the Virginia law that states something about a person who VOLUNTARILY goes for mental evaluation and rehabilitation, doesn’t have to legally declare this on a any forms, and this negative information didn’t show up when the South Korean legal resident alien, applied for the pistol purchases. The news report spoke only of State approval. This information has to be cleared by telephone, Federal FBI approval. Someone got their facts wrong. I believe that no resident alien should be approved for weapons purchase, as there are too many New World Order types who want to take all weapons away.
    Do not overlook the possibility of hypnosis. I know there will be a huge crowd out there that are ready to scream, …”Oh, another conspiracy theorist”. If you really look deeply into the Sirhan Sirhan history, you will find he was closely compartmented, [denied contact with knowledgeable experts], after the RFK slaying, and when a certified psychiatrist started to put him into deep hypnosis, the guards came in, and stopped him from any other contact, with Sirhan. Many people will say, “The Manchurian Candidate” was only a movie.
    There are two books out there that are an excellent starting point, into the validity of hypnosis, which can be purchased through used book stores, Ebay, and possibly Amazon. Both are written by an established Hypnotist, Emile Franchel, who had a TV program in 1956. The government shut down the program. The first book is “Demonstrable HYPNOTISM and Practical SELF-HYPNOSIS”, copyright 1956; the second book is “254 Questions And Answers On Practical Hypnotism And Auto-Suggestion Plus Glossary”, copyright 1957. This hypnotist was no fraud or crank, as he did documented work for Law Enforcement, and the Government. These two books are very honest, and lucid. Please do not discount this information. Use your resources to obtain these books and decide for yourself. Isn’t it very possible that this incident was helped along? Coming from South Korea? This persons background should be thoroughly investigated. If “blocks” are encountered during any intensive probe, then this should send up doubts, and confirmation of manipulation. We are the only “free” country left, to keep and bear arms, but the agenda is spreading fast to take away this right. Does that make sense, when you look at the South African rapes and murders, as well as the flood of illegal criminals coming across our borders daily? Have you read about MS-13?
    About ten years ago a Navy Chaplain predicted we would have disenfranchised teenagers, roaming our country in vans, committing crimes at will. Have Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, and Charles Schumer thought of that, or do they care, with their executive protection, living in their “GOLD-fish Bowl”
    This information is just the tip of the “iceberg”, but these two books are a legitimate beginning.
    Robert

  95. hermesten Says:

    I don’t think there has to be a either a specific “motive,” or that the government has to have actual “mind control” capabilities, to wonder if this slaughter is the result of a government experiment. The stated objectives of MKULTRA are on the record in the Church testimony, and most of them are far less ambitious than actual “mind control.”

    We know from the historical record that the government has conducted psychological experiments on unwilling subjects and killed a number of them in the process. The MKULTRA testimony makes it clear that one criteria for picking test subjects is that they have a record of instablity that undermines their credibility as a witness. We also have:

    1. Tracking of prescriptions and treatment for mental problems. This is useful for a number of things besides experimentation (political blackmail and control for one), but it gives the government all the information it needs to identify potential test subjects.

    2. Whosesale wire-tapping and number logging that enables the government to trace an entire social network through telephone contacts.

    3 Internet monitoring that allows the government to trace an entire social network through the internet. (#2 and #3 are both very valuable tools for political blackmail and control, but they also help the government to determine just how socially isolated a potential test subject really is).

    We know for a fact that our government has conducted extensive psychological experiments and some of them have resulted in the death of the subjects. We don’t know how far these experiments have gone or what results they have achieved. No mind control has to be involved here, or any specific objective. It could simply be a case of someone the government has selected for experimentation for the purposes of psychological breakdown –a stated objective of MKULTRA (to use psychological breakdown to sow construtive chaos, at home or abroad). They break the guy down and he goes nuts and shoots people. All the results serve the interests of the State –there is no downside for such an operation from the State’s perspective.

  96. boo Says:

    Hmmm…

    “vt killer reportedly would punch sister as child”
    http://abcnews.go.com/US/VATec.....038;page=1

  97. hermesten Says:

    Yesterday I discussed some of the comments here with my son who has had state law enforcement training.

    He was told in class that, nationally, only 4% of the people police shoot with handguns die; and that if lethal force was really needed, a handgun should be considered a temporary weapon for use until they could grab a rifle or a shotgun.

    He also told me that he prefers to use a revolver because of all the semi-auto jams he witnessed on the firing range.

    Furthermore, his class was told that due to the debacle in Columbine, if they should ever find themselves in a similar situation, they were to enter the building immediately, in teams of three, using alternating cover, and take out the shooters. They were not to wait for orders or instructions: they were to act immediately.

  98. keyboardslave Says:

    Someone asked for a list of the victims earlier in the discussions and I found them compiled on a blog here:

    Ross Abdallah Almandine (20)

    Christopher James (Jamie) Bishop (35)

    Brian Bluhm (25)

    Ryan Clark (22)

    Austin Cloyd

    Jocelyne Couture-Nowak

    Daniel Perez Cueva (21)

    Kevin Granata (45)

    Mathew G Gwaltney (24)

    Caitline Hammaren (19)

    Jeremy Herbstritt (27)

    Rachael Hill (18)

    Emily Jane Hilscher (19)

    Jarrett Lane (22)

    Matt La Porte (20)

    Henry Lee

    Liviu Librescu (76)

    GV Loganathan (51)

    Partahi Lombantoruan (34)

    Lauren McCain (20)

    Daniel O’Neil (22)

    Jaun Ortiz (26)

    Minal Paschal (26)

    Erin Peterson (18)

    Michael Pohle (23)

    Julia Pryde

    Mary Karen Read (19)

    Reema Samaha (18)

    Waleed Mohamed Shaalan

    Leslie Sherman

    Maxine Turner (22)

    Nicole White (20)

    Cho Seung-Hui (23)

    Very interesting discussions here. Thought-provoking at the least anyway. Thanks.

  99. RHB Says:

    One doesn’t require training to kill someone with a handgun. There are thousands of killings with handguns each year in the US. Am I to believe the shooter in each case had extensive firearms training? With respect to the VT killings, it isn’t sensible to speculate on the skill of the shooter without knowing more about the circumstances of the shootings. For example, what were the circumstances of FVK’s LAPD example? Was the suspect behind a car? Running down a poorly lit street? Was it night or day? Or was he in a well lit classroom, seated at a desk, only feet away from his shooter? Can you see why these details might matter? I’m pretty sure most people could “triple tap” fish in a barrel.

  100. Tito Says:

    RHB Do you shoot?

  101. starviego Says:

    The doctor tending the wounded in one hospital said they had all been shot three times. If that ratio holds for the dead victims, then you have 45* gunshot victims X 3 shots per victim = 135 hits for 170 rounds fired. That is simply an incredible level of accuracy, even for an expert shooter.(I have enough experience with the .22, 9mm, .357, and .45 to attest to this.)

    Also, at least two interviewed victims commented on the speed with which the clips were reloaded, one used the word “trained” to describe the gunman’s actions. Others commented on the extreme speed with which the gunman emptied his clip at the stunned victims. Yet any shooter knows that speed and accuracy are mutually exclusive.

    Some reports say the killer opened the door and looked into three of the four effected classrooms before he started to fire. And survivors in three of the rooms claim the killer attemted to re-enter after his initial killing spree. This is also strongly indicative of a trained, professional killer. But where would Cho have received such training? Perhaps this poster has the answer:

    http://breakfornews.com/forum/.....3961c1c2ab
    My dad told me today that on MSNBC, between the time they identified Cho by name and the time they got the package, they said he was an ex-Marine, ex-Navy. Dad said they never mentioned it again, but he remembers it clearly because he immediately thought PTSD and even discussed it later that day with his counselor at the VA.

    ———————

    *Interestingly, wiki is reporting that 61 people were shot:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.....h_massacre
    During the two attacks the gunman shot 61 people.

  102. SK Says:

    Check out http://lilarajiva.wordpress.com
    for details on the shooting

  103. T-Unit Says:

    Just remember: the test of any good, scientific theory, conspiracy or otherwise, is to seek out information that DISPROVES your hypothesis.

    That being said, I admit that immediately struck by oddities of the case, such as the number of people killed (33), the fact that apparently little was done to secure the school two hours after the first two shootings, the fact that this amateur was so deadly with a pair of handguns (I myself have been to the range a number of times with handguns, and know that this guys kill rate is extremely unlikely for his alleged experience level).

    Also, anyone else notice that Blacksburgh falls close to the 77th Meridian (nearly a straight line through Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Washington, et al)?

  104. Bob Says:

    Did Cho have an accomplice or was he set up?

    FACTS

    1. In order to shoot 2 to 3 shots with both guns in the hand, accurately, the person must be a professional shooter.
    (Colombine incident included 2 people, 3guns, 900 shots=13 deaths)

    CSH(Cho Seung Hee) was never trained in the army
    If you have shot a gun before, you would know
    it is hard to fire a pistol so accurately, in such quick time

    CSH had only bought the guns a month before the shooting. How is it possible for him to shoot so well?

    2. Emily, reported to be his former girlfriend, is actually not his girlfriend

    3. Emily was not related with CSH in any way, but he went to her dormitory and killed her.

    4. Cho’s body had 2 shots in the chest, 1 in the head
    There are 3 common ways of suicidal with gun
    1)shooting from the side of the head
    2)shooting through your mouth
    3)Shooting from under your head

    The usual suicide would have shots in the side of the head or the face, usually. CSH, however,
    had a bullet stuck in the back of the head

    Most people who were fired at got 3 shots
    CSH, was found with 3 shots in his body just like any other victims

    It is extremely hard to shoot yourself multiple times after being shot in the chest or the head. Again, CSH had 1 shot in the head, 2 shots in the chest

    Why was he shot 3 times, just like the others?
    does it make sense that he was shot in such a way?

    5. There was no witness to the suicide scene
    the survivors in the scene had run out of the classroom (he said the killer’s eyes were not Asian)
    -this kind of explanation were ignored

    What’s the truth?

    6. Nobody saw CSH’s face

    7. The witness’s say CSH was an Asian with a mask on, and was about 6 ft tall and big

    8. The gun vender described CSH as an Asian. Period.
    There were no films of CCTV, and no other evidences

    9. The vender said he had sold 50 bullets to CSH
    There were 62 deaths and injuries
    There was no one who died was shot less than 3 times
    (32 deaths x 3 shots/death….30 injuries x 2 shots/injury…60 extra bullets)

    Calculated, CSH must have had more than 200 shots to make this incident true

    10. The killer had erased the code on the gun. The receipt for the purchase of the gun was found in the killer’s bag. What are the possibilities of the killer keeping the receipt for the gun after a month?
    If anyone would take effort and time to erase the code on the gun, wouldn’t they be careful enough to get rid of the receipt? (It’s not easy to erase the code. It takes few seconds to get rid of the receipt)

    11. The witnesses said the killer did not wear, nor carry any bags. CSH, did have a bag

    12. Obviously, the video he had sent, was not made by himself. Even New York Times pointed this out.

    13. According to the Police, the gun at the incident was automatic. Watch the videos and hear the sounds. It’s all fired with single shots.

    Think about it. There are about 10~15 rounds in a pistol, and there were 32 deaths, with 3 shots in each. With both pistols in both hands, it is impossible to reload. Watch the video, it is constantly fired.

    14. CSH had no friends at all, according to a student. Before a few days of the incident, he was with 3 other Americans. Who were they?

    15. In the news, CSH had done this for the hate of the rich people. If this is true, he could have simply shot the classrooms. There was no reason for him to go to the dormitories and kill 2 people, who were not in any relations with CSH.

    And why did CSH, after the first shooting, make the video and walk around the school to send it, and then go to the 2nd shooting?

    16. When CSH’s body was found, his ID was PRESENT, it was there. Why was his identity reported later on?

    17. The Witness’ sayings do not match correctly. Some say that they did not hear the gunfire in their building, but other say they heard it from that building.

    18. The photos which were sent to NBC do not match CSH’s face.
    Observing the eyebrows, eyes, and the face shape, it is different. Some say it’s because he has his glasses off. Look again, it does not match CSH.

    19. CSH’s body was found with the 28 dead bodies in the classroom. The only survivor said, the killer had run away after killing the 28 people, while CSH was found dead with the other dead bodies

    20. The classroom, dormitory, hallways, school gate, the gunshop.
    The films of the CCTV were NOT exposed to the public. WHY?

    So What’s wrong with the reports/news?

    -CCTV
    -2 guns/amature, yet many students died and many were injured as a professional shooter would have done it
    -According to the witness, CSH had apparently left the classroom
    -CSH was found dead in the classroom
    -The gun code was erased
    -The receipt for the gun was found in the bag

    These are the theories I’ve made about this

    -CSH had bought the guns for someone else?
    -The killer knew CSH did not have a positive social life
    -The killer decided to use CSH
    -The killer had planned this out to keep himself covered

  105. elsss Says:

    Check this out. Here is CNN caught red-handed censoring original Blacksburg video documents. Compare the two vids below by comparing the sound at the time the camera aims at the ground and sees the lines in the sidewalk. Different voice, different gunshot sounds. First guy even goes “Whoah!” where the CNN voiceover goes “Man.” On the original video there’s no way that big shot or explosion is either a .22 or 9mm. This is entirely worthwhile for someone with any video experience, unlike me, to put next to each other in one vid and post. I think this is sort of a bid deal actually.

    original (note at :55 the many shots and final boom – says “Whoah!”)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou3r_5acQoA

    CNN (note the fewer shots, no boom, and says “man.”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhxf__y70_0

    UPDATE: The guy, Jamal Albarghouti, says in the CNN interview that the gunfire didn’t sound like it was coming from the building you see with all the cops around it, but further away, however, he thinks they used a bomb or something to open one of the doors to get in. I’m guess that’s what we hear in the unedited version. I don’t know, and don’t think Jamal knows either. However, fact is these are different audio tracks on this video.

    http://www.libertyforum.org/sh.....t295439092

    Anonymous Posted: 2007/4/26 19:19 Updated: 2007/4/27 7:17
    Re: Is this Seung-Hui Cho in a U.S.M.C Uniform?
    sorry

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6YLo8MV0ro

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFc-Y4azozE

    Note Added By AOP: The first video linked here is a fake of sorts it is a still image of a building on the VT campus with the audio from one of the camera phone videos.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6YLo8MV0ro

  106. The Virginia Tech Conspiracy Blogger Says:

    It’s quite an interesting compilation you have here. It’s also good to see that more people are looking at the evidence for a government cover-up, whatever form that takes.

    I’m also dealing with this subject in my personal blog: http://thevirginiatechconspiracy.blogspot.com/

    Pay us a visit some time for more information.

  107. Prissy Says:

    Interesting…good job on the research too. I’ll be linking your article!

  108. starviego Says:

    Bob,

    What is your source for your statement:

    “CSH had 1 shot in the head, 2 shots in the chest”?

  109. DC Says:

    Yes, I too agree with FVK.
    I am currently a soldier in the Canadian Forces and I have been weapons trained, C7, browning etc. And I can easily say, using a pistol in each hand is not the easiest of tasks.

    Firing approximately 177 rounds, with a pistol in each hand and high probability of weapon jamming, and assuming he was an amateur at weapon handling, I don’t think this all adds up. Plus according to that doctor who spoke publicly, the victims all had no less than 3 bullet wounds. That’s unbelievable that an amateur with two weapons could do that kind of damage in 25 minutes.

    I also have heard that Cho Seung Hui was found with bullet wounds in his back. I don’t know how that happened, unless police were able to get to him, but why wouldn’t they release that information publicly then?
    (This source comes from a korean pastor who worked in Cho Seung Hui’s family’s church. He has been speaking publicly about this tragedy in Canada this week).

  110. DC Says:

    Rose, what the government can gain out of this is not only public opinion, BUT stronger control of the economy.
    The US and South Korea have been in a quarrel recently about imports from korea to the US. Apparently, South Korea doesn’t want to continue imports with the US and this put the US in a bind. Therefore, by using specifically a South Korean and knowing that these tragic events really move people, they are hoping that the ties between the US and South Korea will become a little stronger or have South Korea at its knees to the US for the tragic incident.

    That’s one way of looking at it.

  111. Rose+From a psychic Says:

    Hey I know that some of you are either going to think I’m nuts or
    stupid or both, but a few days ago I had a dream about mind control,
    don’t really remember the dream, but the dream woke me up, and I have
    this feeling like this information is going into my mind, it felt like
    my mind was being control, it’s hard to explain but it was really
    weird.

    I had to shake my head to stop that feeling or whatever it was, you
    should have seen the look on my cats face who was sleeping near me,
    she was scared and wanted to get out of my room.

    I may not know what is going on exactly but something is going on, the
    look on my cats face is enough proof for me.

    p.s. by the way my cat hates going outside, she likes to sleep indoors
    all the time lol.

  112. exod-us Says:

    Memorandom on Virginia Tech Massacre No.3: David Kim, the Reverend Who Has Three Faces
    http://exodus.exblog.jp/5582870/

    I’m running after the Virginia Tech Massacre with an assumption that it might be part of some clandestine operation. Now I’m sure that I’m approaching the truth. It is well known that the sister of Cho Seung Hui the killer was a member of Manna Christian Fellowship in her Princeton University days, and her mentor Rev. David Kim is working for the public relations of the incident to advocate on the behalf of the perpetrator’s family [1]. The reverend is affirmatively a Korean but who he is? Here are some facts.

    (1) David S. C. Kim: According to wiki [2], David S. C. Kim was the first president of UTS (the Unification Theological Seminary), which serves the Unification Church [9] through graduate education in theology and related subjects, as well as by sponsoring ecumenical conferences. His term of office was 1975-1994. According to an inner article [3], in 1979 he was appointed to the head of “elders” of the first Summer Seminar on Unification Theology but afterwards replaced with Rev. C. H. Kwak by Moon.

    (2) David Kwangshin Kim: According to wiki [4], David Kwangshin Kim was born in South Korea, graduated from Seoul National University, and became a businessman in US. He allegedly met Jesus Christ at the age of 42, abandoned his business and entered Talbot School of Theology. He founded the Grace Korean Church in 1982 with three families. It spread their missions through Grace Ministries International, and now churches have been planted all over the world, as 2,000 in Russia, 600 in Africa, 3,000 in China, 1,000 in Vietnam and many more in South America. As to Korea missions came in rather late as 2004, when Seoul Grace Church was established. Grace Korean Church is known by its aggressive mission and the systematic brainwash program called Basket Operation. Seoul Grace Church’s policy does not require any membership of the church to the students, and all of the students are encouraged to work as members of other churches.

    (3) David H. Kim: According to a report in Princeton University’s daily newspaper, the Daily Princetonian [1], David H. Kim is the director of Manna Christian Fellowship at Princeton University. The society began over 10 years ago, and has historically heavily Asian-American membership. Its members also get together for ad hoc socializing, including movies, bowling, ice-skating and eating [5]. The fellowship was founded by Rev. Wellington Boone, who has since formed The Wellington Boone Ministries and has been deeply involved in the radical right-wing evangelical movement. Boone is also a member of the Promise Keepers movement, a phallic worship cult, promoting the total submission of women to their husband. [6][7]

    Here we have three religious facilities, CTS (Unification Theological Seminary), GKC (Grace Korean Church) and Manna (Manna Christian Fellowship at Princeton University), which share the same name “Rev. David Kim” for their heads. By coincidence? Uncertain. Now Let’s examine the time-line of the activities of these reverends. Apparently the Manna activity at Princeton University begins shortly after the end of the term at UTS. It is not unreasonable to suppose that Kim’s presidency of UTS became nominal to some extent since 1979 when he dropped from the elders head. If this hypothesis is true, then all the three activities line in a raw.

    1975 1979 1982 1994 2007

    –|————-|—-|———————–|——————-|—–

    || |

    |

    Through ’70 and ’80 Unification Church [9] awfully pervaded in Japan, and left behind 6500 missing persons allegedly abducted by the cult. The estimated total damage is over 1 trillion yen ($8.4 billion). In the period an enormous amount of money was smuggled out of Japan to US. Moon and his followers penetrated the US society pouring the money generously into their ecumenical movement like UTS, religious right wings like Promise Keepers [6], and even Afro-American religious leaders like Wellington Boone. The total money spent in these arena is estimated over $3 billion. In the middle of ’80, Moon was imprisoned in US for tax evasion. The period of the expansion of Grace Korean Church is exactly over wrapping. As mentioned above the income of the GKC is little from the inside membership dues. Then where did such power money come from to extend its branches all over the world. The presumable answer is just one, i.e. came from Moon.

    Unification Theological Seminary is boldly an affiliate of Unification Church. Manna Christian Fellowship links to Promise Keepers, an ultra-right militant organization via the Afro-American mentor Wellington Boone backed up by Moon. [6] Grace Korean Church ostensibly seems to be a genuine Christian church but in a considerable certainty it is a disguised front of Unification Church expanded through the brainwash tactics and power of money inherited from Unification Church. In the view of development flow, it seems like shifting toward more moderate form as CTS (front of Unification Church) –> GKC (kind of Christian church) –> Manna (Christian social activity) but the nature is unaltered as the link between Manna and Promise Keepers.

    At present I have no foundation to identify those three persons one and the same, but isn’t it natural to appreciate that a single man named “David Kim” has relocated in each time using an alias along with the flow of the time? Yes, a suit of photos is enough. However as they say that even the president had the plastic surgery in the country [8], the facial appearance of the man might have been altered together with his aliases.

    [Update] According to the survey article by the Religious Movements in Virginia University [9], David Kim had already come to Eugene, Oregon, as early as in 1959 for the first time, where Young Oon Kim, who was the first missionary of the US, had established a bridgehead of Unification Church. Miss Kim had been a spiritualist and converted in very early stage of the church as 1954, when the church, the Holy Spirit Association for the Unification of World Christianity (HSA-UWC), formally founded. Miss Kim and her group translated their sacred text, the Divine Principle, into English.

    [1]Cho ’04 calls campus friend (DAILLYPRINCETONIAN.COM, 2007-04-19)
    [2]Unification Theological Seminary (WikipediA, 2007-02-19)
    [3]Lost World Of Unification Studies (True Parents Organization, 1999-01-30)
    [4]Seoul Grace Church (WikipediA, 2007-04-24)
    [5]Manna Christian Fellowship Highlights (princeton.edu, manna)
    [6]News – Cho ties to Manna Christian Fellowship (The Conspiracy Theory Blogger, 2007-04-21)
    [7]‘Promise Keepers’ Mind Control Techniques (Educate-Yourself, Mind Control)
    [8]S. Korea Sees Boom in Male Plastic Surgery (SFGate.com, 2006-04-16)
    [9]The Unification Church (Religious Movements, 2001-09-05)

  113. exod-us Says:

    Memorandom on Virginia Tech Massacre No.4: Is Rev. Moon sending nukes next?

    Below is the excerpt (slightly modified) from a dialogue with ellroon, the administrator of Rants From The Rookery. I posted my previous entry in a whole to his blog. He kindly read it and put some questions to me.

    > babalabo, that is truly creepy and awful, but what is your point?

    Falling into a depth of fantasy/illusion is not what I want, but what they (War Beneficiaries) conspired against us. That is, to promote mutual distrust and bring chaos in a region is their accustomed tactics. Currently we have two origins of all-out war, Palestine (broadly Middle East) and Korean Peninsula. As you may notice both are prepared/embedded for the next and presumably final world war just after the WWII. Europe had held their own flash point, but extincted by themselves, i.e., Berlin Wall and established EU. I don’t know if the WWIII is inevitable, but I think that it is our responsible to prevent the war from coming into Far East.

    North Korea carried out a nuclear test October in the last year and now 6 Party-Talks is going on. We fear that North Korea would be perceived as a nuclear power like Pakistan or Israel in the international community, and the situation is effectively proceeding towards the direction. This simply results revision of our Peace-Constitution and nuclearisation, while I think that North Korea and US war-mongers are actually collaborating for this purpose. This is my point. Incidentally Unification Church holds Armageddon vision in their minds, as well as Christian fundamentalists.

    > That the Virginia Tech gunman was a Moonie?

    I don’t know. It may be or may not. But it is very probable that Cho had been mind-controlled even in rather early time. It is told that he was abnormally wordless, that might be a symptom of a failure of mind-control. It is well documented that Unification Church was a front of KCIA, which CIA fostered. Moon strongly ties with Kim John Ill (as well as with Bush) mentally and financially. Of course these organizations provide expertize of brainwashing and mind-control. At the least Cho must have been financed by someone for his spending, purchase of weapons, renting a car over a month, hotel fees, etc etc, in a few months before the event as it seems that his emigrant poor family did not afford that.

    > If he was a Moonie and Rev. Moon thought it was a good idea for one of his followers to go on a rampage, the next question is why?

    As above. Do you remember Tokyo Subway Sarin Gas Attack by Aum Supreme Truth? On the morning of 20th March 1995, the cult released sarin in a co-ordinated attack on five crowded trains during rush hours in the Tokyo subway system, killing 12 commuters, seriously harming 54 and affecting 980 more. It is verified that the cult had a tie with Unification Church and traded with North Korea. Aum shared the Armageddon vision with Unification Church. I don’t claim that Cho was a Moonie, maybe he was just a victim. In Cho’s case personal motivation cannot be neglected, but it’s just a preface. You may know that the sister of Cho is an employee of an US intelligence agency, McNeil Technologies, that is too serious to miss.

    > To cause the collapse of American society and bring the second coming as Moon has indicated he desires?

    I’m not Moon, so I cannot answer you what exactly his desire is, but I suppose that he is behaving himself as an Anti-Christ described in Bible consciously or unconsciously. By the way the church formally declared that Moon is the prophesied Messiah in 1992. The coronation of Rev. Sun Myung Moon as Emperor-Messsiah took place at Dirksen Senate Building in Washington, D.C. on March 23, 2004. Can you imagine how much money have poured into your politicians?

    > Didn’t happen. It will take a lot more than one lone gunman to destroy this culture.

    Yes, of course. They are doing much by spending your money (US tax).
    http://blog.au.org/2004/10/05/harvest_moon160/
    http://www.workingforchange.co.....emid=22259
    http://www.radicalleft.net/blo.....87012.html

    > We get one of these massacres every few years or so, stagger about for a bit, and then continue on.

    Someone said that 33 in US is a massacre, but 100 in Iraq is a statistic.
    http://www.rockymountainnews.c.....s/article/

    > Is Rev. Moon sending nukes next?

    On 17th April, the very next day of the VT massacre, Nagasaki Mayer was shot and dead by a member of a criminal syndicate in our country. Our security authority is investigating the background of the incident. Some findings are demonstrated but no direct evidence of involvement of Unification Church so far. It is suggested that the criminal may be a Korean. As you know Nagasaki is our holy place commemorating the disaster of the atomic bomb, i.e., a place for aspiring lasting peace. I cannot help reading a very malicious message here.

  114. Yo Says:

    exod-us, So far, there is no Moonie connection to be made. Where is it documented that Wellington Boone (Promise Keepers) is backed by the Moon organization/Unification Church?

  115. exod-us Says:

    > exod-us, So far, there is no Moonie connection to be made. Where is it documented that Wellington Boone (Promise Keepers) is backed by the Moon organization/Unification Church?

    In a big picture Moon is just a clown crowned with a disgraceful cap. [1] Even though Boone might be much smaller figure than the reverend. I know neither if he was given a check of Moon nor in the first place he had met the self-proclaimed Messiah as it was said “Silence is what Moon is buying”. [2] But it is sure that he was in the circle [3], i.e., within the Animal Farm.

    Bishop Wellington Boone is a steering committee for the Coalition on Revival (COR), an organization founded in 1984 by Jay Grimstead. The Coalition is a network of evangelical leaders from every major denominational and theological perspective who share a vision for and a commitment to worldwide revival, renewal, and reformation in Church and society. [4] COR’s basic mission is to encourage and help the universal Church of Jesus Christ to obey God’s Cultural Mandate and the Great Commission. COR’s founding director Dr. Jay Grimstead also helped found the International Council on Biblical Inerrancy. [5]

    A number of Promise Keepers leaders have ties to extreme Reconstruction and Dominionist movements including the controversial Coalition on Revival. [6] To see the deep-roots of Unification Church over the US evangerical movements, I’d like to scoop merely a handful of sand by quoting from the article [7]. In this article the author Eric Jewell, an investigative reporter, affirmatively described “Coalition on Revival” as a Moon sponsored organization.

    Tim LaHaye
    Co-author of the Left Behind book series, which depicts a person as being saved even after receiving the mark of the beast. Thinking this to be a fluke, in a conversation with his co-author Jerry Jenkins at the official left behind website in their message board section, we were told their position is that it will be ok to receive the mark of the beast as long as the recipient of the mark is not a worshiper of the beast. These men are influencing millions, and now no doubt countless thousands are embracing this doctrine as scripturally sound. Are they preparing the church to receive the mark of the beast? It would certainly seem so. I have asked Tim LaHaye several questions recently concerning his relationship with the Rev. Moon and the intelligence community. At first he denied sitting on any board with men associated with the Rev Moon, but when faced with evidence showing this to be untrue he now remains silent.

    LaHaye is a central figure in marrying evangelical churches with the Rev. Moon and the intelligence community.

    He was a principal in the American Freedom coalition, which was a Moon sponsored group, and claimed by Moon as an arm of his network. He was also associated with the Coalition on Revival, and the Heritage foundation, both of which were also Moon sponsored. After this association was made public, he resigned from the AFC, (though his name was not removed when he resigned), and tried to distance himself from Moon in the public eye.

    He was also a principal in the Coalition of Religious Freedom, where he spoke out for Moon during Moon’s incarceration for tax fraud, asking hundreds of evangelicals to go to prison to support Moon if allowed by authorities. He was also on the original board of directors of Falwell’s Moral Majority, which was also tied through its members to the intelligence community, and Ren Moon’s Unification Church.

    LaHaye also founded the American Coalition of Traditional Values, which was touted as a Christian organization, but was extra-ripe with Moon organization board members, and the intelligence community. He then went on to found what was his hallmark organization, The Council for National Policy. This was an infamous moment for LaHaye as the most powerful intelligence and National Security community members were melded with the church, and it was literally filled with evangelical leaders who sit in organizations sponsored and founded by Moon. This Council went on for the next 2 decades to both work affecting national policy as well as movements within the protestant denominations, affecting nearly every evangelical church directly or indirectly.

    This coalition has even been involved with Oliver North, who was a member of CNP, and his CIA sponsored Central American mission of covertly toppling governments and then restructuring them (3). LaHaye has also been with the Council of 56 Religious Roundtable, which is another cover organization grouping together Moon’s representatives and the U.S. intelligence community. LaHaye is, at my last finding, also a member of the National Religious Broadcasters which is filled with evangelical leaders tied in with Moon and U.S intelligence.

    [1]Conguring of the Beast (GROUNDZERO, Clyde Lewis)
    http://www.clydelewis.com/dis/.....ring.shtml

    [2]Writing Conspiracy History: Lists Are Not Enough (Gary North, CephasMinistry/Library, 2002-03-01)
    http://www.cephasministry.com/.....2/pk2.html

    [3]Moonies Update (Atheists of Silicon Valley, Atheist Debate, Dialogue and Books)
    http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LI.....pdate1.htm

    [4]Fuller’s Evangelical ‘Think Tank’ CONTINUED (Seek God, 2001-07-31)
    http://www.seekgod.ca/fuller2b.htm

    [5]“Godly Men” With a Dominionist Agenda (Conrad F. Goeringer, American Atheist, Vol 32 No.2 Spring 1997)
    http://www.americanatheist.org/spr97/T2/pk2.html

    [6]Justice Sunday III Speaker Backgrounder (People For the American Way, RIGHT WING WATCH)
    http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/gener.....id=20267#4

    [7]The Unholy Alliance – Christianity & The NWO Part III (Rense.com, Eric Jewell, 2002-03-22)
    http://www.rense.com/general21/unholy3.htm

  116. babalabo Says:

    //MOD Censored? WTF are you talking about?! Stop making stupid accusations.

    > So far, there is no Moonie connection to be made. Where is it documented that Wellington Boone (Promise Keepers) is backed by the Moon organization/Unification Church?

    I’m afraid that this blog is censored as my reply disappeared. If you like check out the URL below. Here is my blog where I posted my answer to you.

    http://exodus.exblog.jp/5609985/

  117. exod-us Says:

    Mr. Moderator: I’m sorry. I just made a conditional reflex as my post looked like disappeared for the moment…

  118. Eastfist Says:

    The massacre is a conspiracy, the corrupt power-hungry politicians’ assassination of my character. I used to be a columnist.

  119. Clay Says:

    First of all my condolences to the families of the
    victims.

    Alot of good work has gone into this thread.

    Poeple please note a socalled independant investigation has been formed. Lets see what they leave out. Or fail to investigate. This is where most coverups are unmasked.

    A coupla’ observations. Since I quit watchin’ television dec 01.(It lies) I haven’t seen the full manifesto. But what I have seen is interesting in that:

    The Cho in the vids sounds like he’s reading a script. In some places he sounds like he doesn’t believe what he’s saying,or want to say it. Forced? Interesting bit there fer’ sure.

    Also the brickwork and paint behind cho is of a govt specification.That I’ve only ever seen before in jails. I’d like to know where this was filmed. Was it in his dorm?(Note the thin layer of mortar,the quality of the paint) Maybe nothing there though….

    Another thing you may note in 1 pic. Cho is holding what appears to be 2# glock 9mm’s. Why didn’t he use both of them? Did he just borrow 1 for his photo shoot?

    Filing serial no#? Goodness thats an aweful stupid thing to do. Onna’ legal handgun? The penality for filing serial no# is almost that of murder. Greater in some places.(Federal offense anyway) Another thing to note is on most metal componites the serials can be raised with acid. Then he has the reciept in his pocket!?Showing it was a legally purchased pistol.WTF! That oughta’ get the gun control poeple going inna’ solid uproar. (I know glocks are mostly plastic and some grades of stainless raising serials is difficult)Still its dumb to remove these numbers even on stolen pieces or even dirty pieces there is a good chance they’ll never be run through the computer,or even reported stolen. Possesion of a firearm with filed serials is a federal sentence thats certainly very very nearly automatic. So why did he bother? Was he really that stupid?

    Why did it take a week for the cops to decide how many rounds were fired? Where did Cho get the other three boxes of cartridges?

    Why have the Cho films been pulled from major net work websites?
    Why does the photo of Cho that was posted,I believe @cnn not look like the Cho in the films? Was it the same Cho? Later given “The Treatment”? Or was it a diffrent person altogether?Though he doesn’t look like a very happy young man. He bears little resembilance to the Cho in the films. And why has this photo been pulled? Did cnn just post a photo of an unhappy asian?

    At anyrate as we’ve seen with 911. There is a group of poeple who profit greatly from these media events and they do have an agenda.

    I hope you’ll all forgive my observations. Not to mention typos and misspelling. Thank you for the great thread.

  120. exod-us Says:

    Clay, I really want to read Cho’s full manifesto. They say that it contains so many weird words, but I believe that it would shed light on the shadow of the event.

  121. Clay Says:

    @Exod-us: Yeah I’d like to see the full unedited manifesto. And all the text parts of it too. To see if anything more can be gleaned from it.

    Still I know something caused this and I have some serious reservations about it being because rich kids were picking on him. Or anything else the mainstream media has tried to blame it on.
    Most of it has been proved wrong anyway.

    The breach in security protocol also has me wondering.(I’ve seen that before somewhere)

    Still even if his handler came forward and confessed. Nothing would be done! (Seen that before too.)

    Besides beyond circumstancial,conjucture,
    observations and motive we really have no hard evidence. (Yet)

    Still I would be very surprised to find any conclusive evidence suggesting he wasn’t a mind controlled human bomb. I’ll keep poking around from time to time maybe post up an observation.

    I have a bigger easy to prove conspiracy to try to make poeple aware of if possible. And everyday something isn’t done about it a certain agenda moves forward. Regardless of weither or not Cho was programmed. His actions helped them with this more than he could have ever guessed.

  122. PirateNews.org Says:

    At Pellissippi State Tech College in Tennessee, a teacher and students were laughing at a student behind his back, for threatening the shoot people at school. They had no intention of reporting this threat, so I did. Then a uniformed cop, from a county outside the schools jurisdiction, wearing a gun, sat beside me in the empty library, and admitted on hidden audiotape that he was not a student. Then an active-duty TN Army National Guard soldier (not ROTC), in uniform, sat beside my in class, before “dropping out”. When I was active duty USAF, we were never allowed to wear uniforms off-base or off-duty. I’ve never seen this before or since in 5 years of college. My online test scores were also tampered with repeatedly. So I may have stumbled across a govt psyop.

    News for the memory hole – Will the REAL Cho please stand up:

    Gunman kills 32 at Virginia Tech before being killed
    Chicago Sun-Times
    Sneed hears authorities were investigating whether the gunman who killed 32 people in a rampage on the Virginia Tech campus was a Chinese national who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa. The 25-year-old man being investigated for the deadliest college carnage in U.S. history reportedly arrived in San Francisco on a United Airlines flight on Aug. 7, 2006, on a visa issued in Shanghai, the source said. Investigators had not linked him to any terrorist groups, the source added.
    http://www.total411.info/2007/.....hicom.html

    Professor Texe Marrs PhD, US Air Force Intelligence, reports that Korean Cho was the shooter, but that Cho was the one who was in Communist China. Texe Marrs has authored and sold MILLIONS of books, including college textbooks.
    RADIO BROADCAST TODAY: Without Bang or Whimper
    http://texemarrs.com/make.m3u
    http://www.texemarrs.com

    Top DARPA contractor to staff V-Tech ‘review panel’ – Kaine appointed retired Superintendent of Virginia State Police Lt. Colonel Gerald Massengill to lead the independent committee review board on Wednesday. Also named to the board was former secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge, as well as several specialists in the fields of higher education, violent behavior and medicine. In addition, Kaine said that TriData Corporation will provide research and staff for the review panel. TriData was founded in 1981 as a wholly-owned subsidiary of System Planning Corporation. The two corporations are collocated in Arlington, Virginia. System Planning Corporation is a Virginia based corporation that conducts research and produces electronics and computer software for the United States Department of Defense and other federal government agencies in the support of National security. SPC is one of the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency’s largest support contractors. The company has supported DARPA virtually continuously since the company’s founding. SPC provides systems engineering, technical analysis, and support services to most of DARPA’s Technology Offices.
    http://www.total411.info/2007/.....icial.html

    DARPA.MIL LOGO – Nothing like the US Govt’s official logo of Illuminati’s All Seeing Eye of Lucifer to inspire confidence in DARPA’s honesty and integrity.

    Cathy O’Brien wrote extensively on DARPA projects for torture-based mind control, including at CIA’s underground base in Blacksburg Virginia. She and her daughter experienced the torture personally. Her daughter was lobotomized at Vanderbilt University Medical Center. Over 2.5-MILLION US citizens are genocided at death camps in USA EVERY YEAR.
    http://www.trance-formation.com

    “QKHILLTOP was a cryptonym assigned in 1954 to a project to study Chinese Communist brainwashing techniques and to develop interrogation techniques. Most of the early studies are believed to have been conducted by the Cornell University Medical School Human Ecology Study Programs. The effort was absorbed into the MKULTRA program and the QKHILLTOP cryptonym became obsolete.”
    -U.S. Senate Hearing on MKULTRA, Appendix C, QKHILLTOP DEFINITION, 1973
    http://www.druglibrary.org/sch.....endixC.htm

    “The concepts involved in manipulating behavior are found by many people both within and outside the Agency to be distasteful and unethical. Nevertheless, there have been major accomplishments both in research and operational employment. Over the ten-year life of the program many additional avenues to the control of human behavior have been designated under the MKULTRA charter, including radiation, electro-shock, and harassment substances. Some activities raise questions of legality implicit in the original charter. A final phase of the testing places the rights and interests of US citizens in jeopardy. Technical Services Division initiated a program for covert testing of materials on unwitting US citizens in 1955. TSD has pursued a philosophy of minimum documentation in keeping with the high sensitivity of the projects. Some files contained little or no data at all. There are just two individuals in TSD who have full knowledge of the MKULTRA program, and most of that knowledge is unrecorded.”
    -MEMORANDUM FOR: Director of Central Intelligence
    FROM: CIA Inspector General, NB 108-113, 26 July 1963
    http://www.wanttoknow.info/mindcontrol#_ednref13

    “We need a program of psychosurgery for political control of our society. The purpose is physical control of the mind. Everyone who deviates from the given norm can be surgically mutilated. The individual may think that the most important reality is his own existence, but this is only his personal point of view. This lacks historical perspective. Man does not have the right to develop his own mind. This kind of liberal orientation has great appeal. We must electrically control the brain. Some day armies and generals will be controlled by electrical stimulation of the brain.”
    -Dr. Jose Delgado, Director of Neuropsychiatry, Yale University Medical School prof and CIA mind control scientist, Congressional Record, No 26, vol 118 February 24th, 1974

    Tonight on MSNBC was an excellent example of the 100% incompetence and corruption of police and prosecutors in solving a simple murder. Instead they locked an innocent man in prison for 7 years, and refused to arrest the real killer, who was already in prison and proven guilty by DNA, who already had multiple convictions for raping little girls:

    DOWNLOAD FULL VIDEO & TRANSCRIPT OF BROADCAST:
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17562131/
    ‘Killer Instinct’ – A housewife became a pseudo-CSI investigator in a quest to exonerate her wrongfully-imprisoned husband. Could she find the real murderer?
    This report aired Dateline Sunday, March 11, 7 p.m. (repeat 5 May 2007)
    SUMMIT COUNTY, OHIO – This is the story of how one ordinary woman transformed herself into a would-be C.S.I. investigator and embarked on a dangerous mission which would split her family. It was a mission in which she would take on police, prosecutors, and the state of Ohio in her relentless quest for justice. In 1999, Clarence Elkins was convicted for the rape and murder of Elkins’ 58-year-old mother-in-law and the rape of his 6-year-old niece. He always maintained his innocence.

    I gurantee you that many of the V Tech victims and families are starting to ask these same questions, and they are the ones doing much of this research, just like the 9/11 families.

    SIGN THE 9/11 WIDOWS PETITION:
    http://www.muckrakerreport.com/id401.html
    Still pushing… The Jersey Girls are still 3,000 signatures shy of bringing their petition to Congress. Our site has almost 9,000,000 hits. There’s gotta be 3,000 of you that haven’t signed it. What’re you waiting for?
    http://loosechange911.blogspot.com

    Read Pentagon’s declassified Operation Northwoods, to see Uncle Scams’ signed confession to using snipers and shooters to terrorize USA, and blame innocent patsies. And CIA planned to bomb US cities, hire enemy soldiers to attack US military bases, and explode robot airliners by remote control, with fake funerals for CIA passengers who did not die.
    http://abcnews.go.com/US/story.....038;page=1
    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/n.....0/doc1.pdf

    Pentagon and NATO’s Operation Gladio bombed many West European cities after World War 2, up to the modern day, killing 100s of innocent civilians, to blame innocent “enemies”.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladio

    School board politician bombs US school – 45 dead at Bath School Massacre – Entire school was prewired with bombs. Virginia Tech Massacre is kindergarten compared to what an elected member of a government school board did to little children in Michigan USA, using a controlled demolition of 1-ton of pre-installed explosives, plus a suicide car bomb.
    http://blog.myspace.com/piratenewsctv

    On the morning of May 18, Kehoe first killed his wife and then set his farm buildings on fire. As fire fighters arrived at the farm, an explosion devastated the north wing of the school building, killing many of the people inside. Kehoe used a detonator to ignite dynamite and hundreds of pounds of pyrotol which he had secretly planted inside the school over the course of many months. As rescuers started gathering at the school, Kehoe drove up, stopped, and detonated a bomb inside his shrapnel-filled vehicle, killing himself and the school superintendent, and killing and injuring several others. During the rescue efforts, searchers discovered an additional 500 pounds (230 kg) of unexploded dynamite and pyrotol planted throughout the basement of the school’s south wing.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

    When psychopathic gangsters are running local, state and fed govts, all crimes point back to those criminals, since they literally license all crimes. Only when a criminal fails to purchase a license to rob, rape, steal and kill, does gangsta govt make an arrest, like Al Capone whacking a local scumbag who failed to pay his cut.

  123. emlon Says:

    http://www.newsdaily.com/TopNe.....ooting.xml

    Report in News Daily that Cho’s Mother had tried to have “religious cure” performed at church.

  124. starviego Says:

    I posted about the death of another VTech student above(see #72). Quote:
    “Comment: It wouldn’t surpirse me if this kid was an eyewitness who saw stuff he shouldn’t have and was talking about it.”

    Well, it turns out that Soriano had just left Norris Hall [b]right before[/b] the shooting started.

    local tv station interview:
    –Enrique Soriano, victim’s father: “[b]He almost got killed in that massacre because he just left the building[/b]. He was in Norris Hall before the rampage started.”

    http://cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/.....sm.02.html
    — Enrique Soriano: “He almost got hit in that massacre, because [b]he just left from that building[/b] where the massacre is, so he was so lucky.”

    Of course! Out of about 26,000 students, the one that gets ‘accidentally’ killed may have indeed witnessed something interesting as he left the building, such as people coming or going, or someone chaining the doors.

    No word on the other car he was allegedly racing at the time of the crash, or who those ‘relatives’ were who witnessed the crash.

  125. Nina Says:

    V Tech Panel Whitewash
    http://lilarajiva.wordpress.com

    A

  126. Arthur Says:

    I think you have over looked the fact that there was “33”, victims. 33, as in 33 degree Mason.

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